"Is Historicon cursed?" Topic

I think it might be time to get some psychic readings done. Hire a couple of witchdoctors and buy an assload of crystals.

Oh, I join my Northern brothers in weeping bitter tears, I assure you.

W.

Historicon; The Mother(blank) Of All Conventions.

Maybe they could rent out a vacant shopping mall somewhere as a last resort.

What happened?

This apparently:

"HMGS, Inc. Board of Directors
Update to the Membership, February 5, 2017

Although a membership update was distributed earlier, the Board has become aware of a new development that will affect HMGS's convention plans for 2018. As previously announced, contracts are in place for all three conventions, at their current locations, for 2017. Cold Wars will be held in Lancaster, PA, Historicon in Fredericksburg, VA, and Fall-In! in Lancaster, PA. Nothing has changed for 2017 and we are looking forward to Cold Wars next month.

For 2018, HMGS had signed contracts in place for Historicon in Somerset, New Jersey, and the Board is in negotiations with the Lancaster Host for Cold Wars and Fall-In!

However, on Tuesday, January 24th, the Garden State Convention Center in Somerset, New Jersey informed us that the facility has been sold. Further, the new owner has announced plans to convert the facility to a computer data center. After June 2017, conventions will no longer be held there.

Since the use of the convention center was integral to our ability to hold Historicon in Somerset, the Board must now make alternate plans. All HMGS deposits for Historicon 2018 will be refunded.

In light of this new development, the Board contacted Fredericksburg and the Lancaster Host. HMGS already had contract proposals for one-year and three-year proposals from Fredericksburg, but needed to confirm that dates were still available. The Host was asked to provide the Board with proposals for similar one-year and three-year periods. HMGS received these offers from the Host January, 30th. As expected, the prices in the proposals have increased due to the renovation work being performed there.

In the days and weeks ahead, the Board will be considering all possible alternatives as well as their effects on the HMGS convention program.

We will continue to provide updates to the membership as new information becomes available.

Respectfully,

The HMGS, Inc. Board of Directors"

I got it from Facebook, so I can't vouch for it being accurate, but I have no reason to doubt the source.

Walt

Pass the popcorn, and let the wailings and lamentations begin!

All I gotta say is…Fredericksburg is looking mighty good, eh?

Walt,

That's the letter that BOD President Paul Trani posted on the HMGS member site.

Scott

Copious tears will be shed by the crocodiles.
What will be will be.

If Historicon is held somewhere new (not Fredericksburg or Lancaster), I might go again to see the new area.

LOL, lordy. The saga continues.

The other interesting bit was 'As expected, the prices in the proposals have increased due to the renovation work being performed there' in reference to the Host.

Depending on what that number is, there could be a move for the other two conventions as well.

Que sera sera.

Wegman's! Wegman's! Wegman's!

Wegman's? There's a good one in Fredericksburg….

:D

There is a more important point here then just being forced to change plans for 2018. One of the very few usable convention sites was presumably not doing well enough financially to stay in business and was sold to become a data center. This does not bode well for the future of Historicon.

I think the letter's authentic. I got a copy as an HMGS member, which would make it a really elaborate hoax.

And I have myself cursed Historicon--mostly for the constant moving. I am not as efficient when I don't know the location. It's not must missing turnoffs. It's not knowing the motels and restaurants. Having retired to northern Indiana, Lancaster or Gettysburg are within my reach but Fredericksburg and New Jersey are just too far. Still, for the good of the convention, it needs to go somewhere and STAY even if it's not a place I can reach.

Now for the heresy. Is it perhaps time to buy a place? How many Sears stores are closing this year? What would it take to buy one, and how much to maintain? And what do we pay to the convention centers for three conventions a year?

I'd stay at the Host forever. But if we can't do that, we need to find a place we CAN stay.

And I notice no one's chanting "Timonium! Timonium! Timonium!" If we keep moving, there will be another one.

I'm pretty sure Wegman's is too small, even with the reduced size of Hcon now.

Buy a place?

Unless HMGS wants to go in to the space rental business there's no way to make that work. My wife is on the board of a small club that owns a building they rent out for weddings and events. Capacity is maybe 500. Maintenance on the building is $250,000 USD annually. And they are looking at needing some major renovations in the $3 USD-5 million range.

They have donors to tap for a capital campaign. What will HMGS do when they need a new roof?

Thanks, EC. Needed someone with numbers. So unless we get into the space rental business, looks as though we need long-term contracts.

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this place require $5,000 USD up front to reserve the spot? And then a few weeks later announce that they've sold the place? I sure hope they got the cash back. Sounds shady.

"All HMGS deposits for Historicon 2018 will be refunded."

Sounds like they got their $5,000 USD back.

Totally missed that line, thanks :)

Well, more and more it would seem we should settle on the Host. All this uncertainty is probably costly. I have never been to Fredricksburg, to be fair I have never been to Historicon no matter the venue. Point is, now they are back to being our most reliable option.

I'm reminded of an olllld classic: link

Only tangentially related to the current situation, as I'm sure the BoD is doing their best with a limited number of choices.

Walt

> Well, more and more it would seem we should settle on the Host

Only problem there currently is the prices for the place are in flux.

It doesn't seem that way to me at all. Fredericksburg has been great, and a move would certainly drop attendance again so I think it'd probably be best if it stayed where it is and at least TRY to grow.

Cue the naysayers… 8)=

It is a grim harbinger of the deleterious effects of time that few here will get the jokes in the card game Walt, though I remember when it came out it was a hilarious satire and at the same time a wondrously savage satire that observed the principle of "with mercy for none and malice for all."

As for prices, even we at the much despised agents of the Great Satan, "The Weekend" have had to put up with our price increases. We have gone from $83 USD a night to $92 USD a night. sob… The horror! The Horror!

Buying a place is not realistic.

A Wegman's is opening in Lancaster in 2018. The far eastern side of Lancaster, with hotels nearby…. C

True Dynaman. Prices are unknowable right now. Nazrat, even though I am Northern Blue. I agree. Stability, right now, could only serve them well. I was under the impression Fredricksburg was not a lock contractually. I believe a new contract is needed.

For those incensed, outraged, shocked, saddened, and disappointed and who are now inclined to begin the campaign of breast beating, posturing, rending of garments, tearing of beards, weeping, wailing, gnashing of teeth, proclaiming jeremihads from the rooftops, and pronouncing curses on both your houses, I point out to you that Cold Wars is coming up, and I am fairly sure that there will be a membership meeting as there always has been and there nominations for the bod are received, as they always have been, and all of you can submit your name to in nominations for positions on the board, and there bring your august opinions to bear in a meaningful way to rescue the organization and bring your transcendent brilliance to bear for the good of the hobby and you fellow hobbyist and do some real work.

Move it to Mid-America and make it True National Convention.

Bruce, what about the conventions that already are out in mid-America as you are calling it?

Actually the Wegmans in Lancaster is going to be on the west side of town, about 10-15 minutes from the Host.

link

It's a sign: Wegmans in Lancaster.

Add that to a renovated Host, plus new hotels in the area.

Like it or not, Lancaster is improving as a location for HMGS.

We are in a fringe hobby, with slim profit margins. There aren't many of us, and we are notoriously cheap, compared to fly fishermen, model railroad enthusiasts, or foodies.

The cost of putting on a convention in 2017, for a price that this particular-sized group is willing to pay, may just be too high.

What? Fredericksburg is too far for some of you? I have to fly in from California to go!

Rdfraf, what the hell are you talking about?

"Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't this place require $5,000 USD USD up front to reserve the spot? And then a few weeks later announce that they've sold the place? I sure hope they got the cash back. Sounds shady."

Read the actual memo.

The hotel that is connected the to the convention center was caught unaware as well as HMGS.

There is money in real estate and tech and I bet a heck of a lot more than the return as a convention center. With a open floor plan it is perfect for conversion to a data center.

You know, I hate to say it, because I'd go to the Host three times a year, but long-term, HMGS should probably not hold all three conventions at any one spot. It's what my old outfit used to call a "single point of failure."

We go there, fat dumb and happy for some years, then the place burns down, is infested with the Piffle Plague or is bought by some Saudi prince who wants to golf next door, and we wind up with no convention site, no relationship with any other venue--i.e. no one feels obliged to go out of their way to accommodate us. And maybe we don't even have anyone left who knows everything to check on when we start a new site.

If we wind up scrambling in 2018 and everything goes to the Host--well, that happens, and I'll enjoy it. But it shouldn't be the long-term plan.

I hear pigeon forge in tn has a brand new convention center, just saying…

Ah. And I can't see us long-term actually being run out of convention sites by data centers. Think about it: it's not as though we can't build more big ugly FCC-style boxes, or that there is an infinite appetite for data centers. For that matter, the country has a huge surplus of retail floorspace as on-line sales grow. If we can't buy a Sears or a K-Mart, rest assured if we wave money around, someone will rent one to us.

At $20 USD-30 a head (adjusted for inflation) someone WILL rent us convention space. It would just be handier if we didn't have to move so often.

What if HMGS stops running conventions, and instead we turn to supporting our regional conventions, which appear to be healthy. So, you visit the local vendors; order the "hard to get" off the web. Folks can day-trip or stay overnight, and old friends can make their plans to still visit each other, hosting their guest at their home or a local hotel.
Then all the uncertainty would be lessened.

>At $20 USD USD-30 a head (adjusted for inflation) someone WILL rent us convention space.

I don't think too many, if any, empty mall anchor spaces have tables and chairs to seat 2500 people.

In general, there is already a surplus of convention space on a national level. The issue is that most of it is in urban areas that are too rich for the average gamer to want to pay for. I don't see too many "FCC type boxes" being erected in the near future. There is more appetite for data centers than convention facilities.

Bring it to Buffalo… the Miami of the north…afordable, great food and lots of Canadians… it's a win win. :-)

Let the laughing begin..

Lancaster posted the best attendance numbers by a considerable margin. It's just the best general location for the target market as a whole. Now that the hotel's getting at least a decent fix up, it seems like a no brainer to me.

We are in a fringe hobby, with slim profit margins. There aren't many of us, and we are notoriously cheap, compared to fly fishermen, model railroad enthusiasts, or foodies.

The cost of putting on a convention in 2017, for a price that this particular-sized group is willing to pay, may just be too high.

You hit the nail on the head.

I love modern board gaming, and so does my wife and kids. This year I am going to a few such cons. One is costing me $150 USD, another $95 USD, and another for $75 USD per adult, kids are a lot cheaper. All 5 day cons of 24 hour gaming. Each gets 3,000+ gamers. The entire family is coming to all of them, so it's a great time and vacations. Fantastic locations and hotels as well. Every gamer I meet there loves them.

That never happened when I attended HMGS cons. No one in the family wanted to go, except my son before he left for college, so eventually I had to phase them out in favor of actual family vacations. I also get to play some miniature gaming at some of them, especially X-Wing. I assume that miniature gaming will grow with Fantasy Flight Games storming into fantasy mass miniature gaming.

Sadly, Historicon is looking like a creaky wagon of cheapskates compared to the hot rods that board game cons have become over past few years.

Ogdenlulimus, the day your vision comes to pass is the day I will have attended my last convention. I've seen those healthy regional conventions--twelve tables in someone's gym (hardly any horse & musket) a dealer's booth containing everything the local game store has given up on selling to the regulars and a flea market which doesn't open unless I stay overnight in the local Motel 6. No, that last is (marginally) unfair. That particular bad idea may be limited to HMGS Great Lakes. And as for uncertainty of location---!

Except for the SYW Association's annual convention, I'm not going anywhere which doesn't run to 500 or more gamers. Yes, I sometimes pick up stuff I've already ordered at a convention, but the idea is to see the stuff I haven't seen, watch the games I haven't seen played, unload serious quantities of surplus at the flea market and find stuff there I can't turn up in five minutes on e-bay. The size of a convention is a major selling point.

Mr. Tibbles, you missed the point. Or I did. If your family didn't like HMGS because they didn't like the games, a more expensive location wouldn't help us. If the objection to HMGS really was the location, well, then at least one higher-priced convention would be worth the experiment. But what sort of amenities do we need to get a family of non-miniature wargamers to an HMGS convention? I ask because I have no idea.

@robert piepenbrink
You have my sympathies, the type of convention you describe has not been seen here in New England since the 80's.
Let's hope HMGS can deliver a convention experience, for all of us to enjoy, in the very near future.

What if HMGS stops running conventions, and instead we turn to supporting our regional conventions,

For some of us HMGS is the regional convention.

Maybe if we doubled the price of admissions, the board could afford to look at other options. I used to go to the Boardgame geek con in Dallas every year and that costs $150 USD for 5 days of gaming. Hotels like filling rooms up in the middle of the week too.

If anyone says $60 USD is too expensive is not in the same hobby as I have been for the last 30 some years. There are rules that cost more then that. I cant buy an army for less then that. Throw in paint and books and brushes and other stuff and it adds up.