Oberlindes Sol LIC  | 19 Jan 2017 12:24 p.m. PST |
link ***
A pair of B-2 "stealth" bombers blasted two ISIS training camps in Libya on Wednesday evening, dropping 108 precision-guided bombs and sending jihadists scattering -- many of whom were then "cleaned up" by drone-launched hellfire missiles, U.S. defense officials told Fox News. The assault killed an estimated 85 terrorists at the camps …
*** 108 precision-guided bombs followed by Hellfire missiles only killed 85 people. That's more than one bomb per person. It strikes me as inefficient. Of course, sending B2 bombers from the US to Libya and back was not an efficient way to kill 85 people, either, but that wasn't why it was done. |
| Grignotage | 19 Jan 2017 12:55 p.m. PST |
Well, compare that to B-52 strikes in Vietnam. If you got lucky, you annihilated a battalion or more. Much more likely, you tore up jungle. And even if you did wipe out a battalion, you used a B-52's bomb load to do it. My guess is there are multiple buildings and sites suspected of housing targets, so you hit all of them---I wonder if one or two of the bombs or missiles actually did all that damage, and the rest was insurance, hitting other likely targets? But it is incredible that we spent all that money on stealth bombers and we use them against someone who doesn't have radar to not detect their approach… |
| Waco Joe | 19 Jan 2017 12:57 p.m. PST |
Ammo outdating? Planes needing to log some flight hours? |
| Lion in the Stars | 19 Jan 2017 12:58 p.m. PST |
Pilots needing the hours, not the planes. I'm pretty sure the US has burned up all the old bombs in inventory by now, we should have a decade or more on everything in inventory. I hope. |
| jdginaz | 19 Jan 2017 1:29 p.m. PST |
There are generally other things that need destroying in the camps besides the people. |
| 15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 19 Jan 2017 1:30 p.m. PST |
The article mentioned why B-2's were used instead of B-52's or B-1's. Basically, it was intended to send a message to China and Russia. But the simple idea that "if you have the toy why not play with it once in awhile?" is good enough for me. What is inefficient is having a duplicate thread on the exact same topic. |
| Major Mike | 19 Jan 2017 1:56 p.m. PST |
Once last chance to rattle the saber |
| cosmicbank | 19 Jan 2017 3:02 p.m. PST |
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| Striker | 19 Jan 2017 4:12 p.m. PST |
Wouldn't a couple of AC130's have handled it and been more of an intimate message (like the horse head in the bed)? |
 Legion 4 | 19 Jan 2017 4:37 p.m. PST |
A B-2 can carry @ 50,000 lbs. of ordinance, IIRC. The B-52 only about 13 tons. So that may have been a consideration. But as some noted this may be a little sabre rattling and demonstration, etc. for Putin and the PRC. But it is incredible that we spent all that money on stealth bombers and we use them against someone who doesn't have radar to not detect their approach…
Well not really, it was a neat and clean 2 bird strike package … In was quick and effective. And better to expend ordinance than US or other allies lives.
Wouldn't a couple of AC130's have handled it and been more of an intimate message (like the horse head in the bed)?
They don't have the range or survivability of a B-2. Albeit Daesh may not have any AAA missiles. But they do have MGs of all sorts. No need to risk an asset if you don't have to. And the AC-130 really has to loiter and run a "race track" to do it's damage. But the B-2 … fast, neat … Boom … game over … And also as noted, there was more destroyed than 85 militant islamists. The camp(s) have other assets as well. E.g., vehicles, ammo, other classes of supplies, structures, etc. |
| boy wundyr x | 19 Jan 2017 4:42 p.m. PST |
I can sort of understand a pair of B2s, but Hellfires on presumably average priority human targets? |
| Mako11 | 19 Jan 2017 5:02 p.m. PST |
Yep, the radical Muslim jihadis are definitely winning the economics war. For the record, pig heads and blood would be scarier, I think. |
| Legion 4 | 19 Jan 2017 5:03 p.m. PST |
A Hellfire can go thru a door or window, etc. and kill and destroy everything inside. A little overkill … maybe ? … But when you want to be sure … |
| Deadles | 19 Jan 2017 5:16 p.m. PST |
Why did they use PGMs? Given it was clearly carpet bombing (108 bombs)in an extremely permissive environment, iron bombs would've done the trick just as well. I'm pretty sure the US has burned up all the old bombs in inventory by now, we should have a decade or more on everything in inventory. I hope. Last I heard there were shortages of cruise missiles when the anti-ISIS campaign started. Production isn't matching expenditure basically. |
| boy wundyr x | 19 Jan 2017 6:38 p.m. PST |
A quick search gave me $70 USDK as the cost of a Hellfire, so I think there's a market opening for the $5 USDK Kill A Regular Terrorist (KART, see I've got this game all figured out) missile. For when you don't need the option of also taking out a T-90. |
| M C MonkeyDew | 20 Jan 2017 8:16 a.m. PST |
It's the Arithmetic of the Frontier: "With home-bred hordes the hillsides teem,
The troopships bring us one by one,
At vast expense of time and steam,
To slay Afridis where they run.
The "captives of our bow and spear"
Are cheap, alas! as we are dear." -R. Kipling The exchange rate varies. Less risk to friendlies = increased monetary expenditure. |
| 15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 20 Jan 2017 8:37 a.m. PST |
The US is notorious for overkill when it comes to matching weapons to targets. The cynic among us (Mako, cough cough) would argue that it's so we can keep defense companies rich by maintaining a demand for expensive ordnance through their wasteful expenditure. |
| Legion 4 | 20 Jan 2017 9:21 a.m. PST |
As I said, JDAM, etc., from 2 B-2s with Drone Hellfire follow up is not cheap. But very quick, clean and efficient. And I think from a "morale", etc., standpoint, Daesh seeing their ranks being very quickly and efficiently "gone". May be a concern. And again they and others see the reach of US power. Just heard in the news. B-52s and Drones took out @ 100 Daesh in Syria today … Seems like a useful technic. As I have said before, I'd rather use ordinance than risk anymore US or allied lives. When it comes to unrepentant vermin like Daesh or any other islamist jihadis and their followers. Like "bolts" from "heaven" they will be removed from the battlefield. Not having time to wonder why their god did not save them. They like that "flowery" language … But not the results of US firepower … |
| Mako11 | 20 Jan 2017 6:45 p.m. PST |
Well, Eisenhower did warn about that, many, many, decades ago, so I'm not the only one concerned about "over kill". I'm guessing the B-1 crews are hopping mad about not being in the mix. |
| Lion in the Stars | 20 Jan 2017 7:50 p.m. PST |
@Mako: Actually I'd bet that they're waiting their turn. Like I said earlier, it was probably a matter of the B2 crews needing the flight hours. |
| Whatisitgood4atwork | 20 Jan 2017 8:57 p.m. PST |
Regrettably, there are many folks in the world who it is probably better to overkill than to underkill. |
| Wolfhag | 20 Jan 2017 11:33 p.m. PST |
Lower cost Hellfire replacement:
link Wolfhag |
| Legion 4 | 21 Jan 2017 10:27 a.m. PST |
Regrettably, there are many folks in the world who it is probably better to overkill than to underkill.
Very true and I agree. Especially it seems with militant islam/jihadi terrorists. And on another point, I would like to see more of these very clean and efficient "cleansing" of Daesh, AQ, etc., happening almost daily. One can dream, I guess … |
