"Crocodile tanks on DDay?" Topic

I am wondering if anyone can help me determine if any Crocs landed on June 6….

I thought the answer was no but then i was listening to Beevor's book on DDay and i though the reader said they did…

Help much appreciated!

James

I recently read a first-hand account of a German soldier who came under fire from a Crocodile on D-Day in Holger Eckherz' book "D Day through German Eyes".

link
(BTW – A very good read, and one that I recommend.)

So my conclusion is yes. But … that is solely based on this one account from the "other" side. I'd rather have a unit log or AAR from the Brits indicating who took them ashore and when. Soldiers' combat recollections often get combat events out of sequence or on the wrong dates, particularly when they are told some time after the events in question.

Seems those who are busy fighting for their lives seldom take meticulous notes.

But unit clerks and quartermasters usually do.

-Mark
(aka: Mk 1)

13th Troop C squadron 141 RAC saw action on the first day of the Normandy invasion. I read one account (source forgotten) that said that three were landed but got bogged down or otherwise played no part.

This thread adds a little more detail: link as does: link

The vast majority of the funnies were AVRE in various configurations, Crabs and DD tanks.

What Mark said. Except my conclusion still would be "probably not" for more or less the same reasons he gives!
Given the effectiveness and high profile of the weapon, and the generally exhaustive amount of information available for d- day, I err on the side of if there were any present and they actually did anything then I can't help feeling we'd have heard about it before!

In many ways it would seem a logical AFV to deploy, given the German pill boxes etc. But as Christot says, one would expect to have heard mention of them.

I have a copy of the 79th Armoured Division's history tucked away in storage somewhere – a relative of mine served with them throughout Normandy and beyond… shame I cannot get hold of it.

Yea, I always thought they were developed to help take the beaches, and to deal with the pillboxes located there.

All the "funnies", like Crocodiles, Crabs, AVRE's carrying fascines, and DD tanks, etc., etc. were designed to do just that.

Thankfully, the Panjandrums were dropped, since they would have probably proved to be more dangerous to their own men than they enemy, based upon their field trials before D-Day.

i have read that the only churchill tanks on dday were avre's and crocs

Joslen notes that two Troops (so 6 tanks) of 141 RAC landed on D-Day with 50 (Northumbrian) Division in the first two waves. 79th Armd Div 'Final Report' only mentions 'very few' were used on D-Day and 'only two' were reported in action inland. My first thought was yes, Crocs landed, but no they didn't use flame till the following day at the earliest.

Gary

The bigger issue was crossing the beach obstacles, hence the emphasis on Crabs, Bobbins, fascines etc. The AVRE was quite capable of blowing a pillbox to bits all on its own, and 'the drill' developed later in the war for dealing with concrete bunkers was for an AVRE to blow a big hole in it first before the Croc squirted flame in (allowing a suitable interval for the defenders to surrender first).

Makes sense: I imagine getting up and off the beach was difficult enough, never mind doing it pulling a trailer.

I have a copy of the 79th Armoured Division's history and it makes no mention of Crocodiles until D+1. Of course this doesn't mean that they didn't land on D-Day, just that no action is recorded for them.

I was reading through the Blitzkrieg Commander forum and came across a similar query from 2012. One of the responses gave a link to the landing tables for 231 Brigade, 50 Division link If you'll scroll down to H+35, you'll see that Crocodiles from 141 RAC came ashore at beach Jig Green. Similarly for 69 Brigade, 50 Division, at H+45 on beach King Green link

Also you need to remember that 141 RAC wasn't part of 79 Armored Division, but was the junior regiment of 31 Tank Brigade which was only incorporated into 79 Division later.

Jim

The history mentions an action by 141's Crocodiles on D+1, so I think it would have recorded a D-Day action by them had one happened.

141 RAC left 31 Tk Bde on 21st June 1944 and first joined 79th Armd Div on 2nd July 1944 when they became part of 30 Armd Bde (Flails). They then reverted to 31 Tk Bde from 4th Sep 1944 when that formation became part of 79th Armd Div. (All dates from Joslen's Orders of Battle).

Gary

Awesom help – many thanks all!