"The Medieval Somme: forgotten battle that was the..." Topic
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Tango01 | 07 Jan 2017 9:54 p.m. PST |
… bloodiest fought on British soil. "A Battle of the Somme on British soil? It happened on Palm Sunday, 1461: a day of fierce fighting in the mud that felled a generation, leaving a longer litany of the dead than any other engagement in the islands' history – reputed in some contemporary reports to be between 19,000 – the same number killed or missing in France on July 1 1916 – and a staggering 38,000. The battle of Towton, fought near a tiny village standing on the old road between Leeds and York, on the brink of the North York Moors, is far less known than many other medieval clashes such as Hastings or Bosworth. Many will never have heard of it. But here, in a blizzard on an icy cold March 29 1461, the forces of the warring factions of Lancaster and York met in a planned pitched battle that soon descended into a mayhem known as the Bloody Meadow. It ran into dusk, and through the fields and byways far from the battlefield. To the few on either side that carried their weapon to the day's end, the result was by no means clear. But York in fact prevailed and within a month (almost to the day), the towering figure of Duke Edward, who stood nearly six-feet-five-inches tall, had reached London and seized the English crown as Edward IV. The Lancastrian king, Henry VI, fled into exile. Towton was not merely a bloody moment in military history. It was also a turning-point in the long struggle for the throne between these two dynasties whose rivalry has provided – since the 16th century – a compelling overture to the grand opera of the Tudor legend, from Shakespeare to the White Queen. But this summer, as national attention focuses on the 100th anniversary of The Battle of the Somme, we might also take the opportunity to recall a day in our history when total war tore up a landscape that was much closer to home…." Main page link Amicalement Armand |
Green Tiger | 08 Jan 2017 12:45 a.m. PST |
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Nick B | 08 Jan 2017 2:56 a.m. PST |
One of the most famous battles of the period ,,,,,,,hardly forgotten! |
Cerdic | 08 Jan 2017 3:09 a.m. PST |
Of course the average person in the street has not forgotten Towton! They've never heard of it to begin with… |
steamingdave47 | 08 Jan 2017 3:13 a.m. PST |
@Green Tiger- I reckon 90% of the UK population will have no knowledge of it whatsoever. The general population has very little knowledge of, or even interest in, their nation's history. |
Gunfreak | 08 Jan 2017 5:04 a.m. PST |
I guess all battles that aren't Waterloo, Gettysburg and D-day are forgotten then. |
Great War Ace | 08 Jan 2017 6:26 a.m. PST |
Yes, Gun. "Bloodiest battle ever" is hardly a topic of interest to moderns. I doubt that the topic ever was. But this year is the centennial of the bloodiest year of the First World War, and other than a passing reference here or there, most "millennials" have no clue that such a war was ever endured, much less what it was all about (why it happened in the first place), and what it led to. History is a dead letter, almost a clean slate upon which the Medía can rewrite, and because it is on the Internet it will be believed. Dangerous times we live in. All of history, even though largely made up even long before we were born, is threatened by ignorance and apathy and current distraction. It's always been that way. But, like the vaunted Global Warming, the revision of History is happening faster than ever before…………. |
Gunfreak | 08 Jan 2017 7:53 a.m. PST |
A more millennial bashing. I'm sure the greatest generation said the same about baby boomers. This has nothing to do with Millenials. But a universal fact that most people don't care about things that don't effect them. No matter what generation they come from. |
Grelber | 08 Jan 2017 11:58 a.m. PST |
I've checked with the ultimate authority on such matters, Mssrs. Sellar and Yeatman, and I'm afraid that this is officially a forgotten battle, and has been at least since the publication of their book, 1066 and All That, in 1930. Grelber |
londoncalling | 08 Jan 2017 2:41 p.m. PST |
Let's be honest if it hasn't been turned into a reasonable blockbuster then 99% will be unfamiliar!! |
KTravlos | 09 Jan 2017 5:08 a.m. PST |
Seriously people, beyond maybe the GI Bill generation, most generations before and most after did not care, nor care about history. People studying history have a very selective view of what past generations knew about history. Every time I have read a book that opens up a bit the black box of say rural population attitudes to history or "nationhood" (the majority of humanity still, and the majority for most of the past) and it is pretty much what they picked up from popular culture (in the past songs, wandering minestrals, and bastardized versions of what passed for "high" culture etc). For the majority of humanity, history only counted worth knowing, if it was a) local b) tied to seminal events in their own lives c) part of entertainment. Only we happy few had a different attitude. Which says more about how weird we are, rather than how weird the rest are. |
GarrisonMiniatures | 09 Jan 2017 9:49 a.m. PST |
'I guess all battles that aren't Waterloo, Gettysburg and D-day are forgotten then.' What's Gettysburg, and why D-Day over Hastings, Trafalgar or El Alamein? |
maverick2909 | 09 Jan 2017 10:49 a.m. PST |
Millenial here, my generation is more into fantasy than history. Why learn about ancient/medieval China when I can watch a movie about dragons attacking the Great Wall. Why learn about Chancellorsville when I can learn about some fake slave uprising to pander to PC culture. My generation doesn't give a rats ass about history, wargaming, or reading. If it isn't on a computer screen and have dragons, explosions, and space aliens in it, it isn't worth watching. |
Thomas Thomas | 09 Jan 2017 11:03 a.m. PST |
Most well read people are generally familar with the War of the Roses which has attracted some popular attention (and is the basis for A Song of Ice and Fire and its TV offspring Game of Thrones). Few will know the names of specific battles out side Bosworth. While the outcomes, tactics and personalties of all War of the Roses battles are very interesting to me, I understand they are not vital to a general understanding of history or even the "lessons" of the War of the Roses. Its the nature of things that more sensational aspects of the conflict stick in people's mind – hence Richard III is better known though less important than Edward IV. The general lessons of the War of the Roses do have value: beware the rise of factions, violence begats violence, winners tend to write the first wave of histories (so always read more about it…), society often suffers when the state does not have a monopoly on military power, the chances of heredity are too risky for society to rely on them as a method of picking leaders. Original sources for Towton may have exaggereted death toll in an attempt to drive home these lessons. TomT |
maverick2909 | 09 Jan 2017 1:11 p.m. PST |
What gets me even more than Towton is the battle of Barnet. So vastly important yet overlooked thanks to Tewskebury. I'm right there with you Tom T, I love the Wars of the Roses, sadly most novels and media focuses on the political aspects and glosses over the actual battles. |
Clays Russians | 09 Jan 2017 6:32 p.m. PST |
Sad isn't it, no one really cares a wit outside our fraternity |
Codsticker | 09 Jan 2017 7:30 p.m. PST |
Only we happy few had a different attitude. Which says more about how weird we are, rather than how weird the rest are. Testify brother! |
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