Tango01 | 07 Jan 2017 9:01 p.m. PST |
"Japan has temporarily withdrawn its ambassador to South Korea, amid an escalating row over a statue representing wartime sex slaves. The statue was installed by activists outside the Japanese consulate in the South Korean city of Busan last month. South Korea has long called for reparations for "comfort women", who were forced to work in Japanese military brothels during World War Two…." Main page link The war ended 75 years ago …. but seems that the scars throughout Asia are still deep… |
79thPA | 07 Jan 2017 9:47 p.m. PST |
I used to do some work with a Chinese PhD. He said this is recent history to them and very much a part of their national consciousness. |
Pictors Studio | 08 Jan 2017 6:32 a.m. PST |
It sure isn't in Japan. I would guess that the average 30-something Japanese person is barely aware that WWII even happened. |
79thPA | 08 Jan 2017 7:29 a.m. PST |
Two countries, two narratives. |
Jeff Ewing | 08 Jan 2017 8:08 a.m. PST |
What's striking to me is: Say a good-sized US city, like Philadelphia, erected a statue that offended, say, Belgium. Would Belgium pull their ambassador? And what would the US say to Belgium and Philly? It's interesting that Tokyo thinks that Seoul is somehow a) responsible and b) has the authority to tell Pusan to take down a statue. |
Fred Cartwright | 08 Jan 2017 9:12 a.m. PST |
It is still very much an issue in the rest of the far eastern countries. The Chinese still haven't forgiven Japan for the atrocities they committed. Not surprising really as the Japanese have never properly acknowledged the problem. Was watching an episode of the World at War the other day where some Japanese soldiers were asked about the atrocities carried out in China. Their response was that they didn't consider them as human and felt no remorse at the time. It was all rather chilling. |
Highland Samurai 1987 | 08 Jan 2017 9:22 a.m. PST |
The average 30 something in america is also barely aware ww2 even happened. |
Noble713 | 08 Jan 2017 9:26 a.m. PST |
The Japanese love to throw international temper tantrums at anything that makes them look bad. They'll ban US beef because of mad cow disease and then protest to international trade groups when Korea banned fish from the Sendai region after Fukushima. WW2 is a part of the National psyche:it's the cause of their deep-seated inferiority complex that they try to paper over with the most obnoxious *superiority * complex I've ever seen. Which just makes you think "Apparently you guys didn't learn your lesson last time." It makes you want to embarrass them and burst their bubble as thoroughly as possible….. But this works against you because it would only serve to reinforce their xenophobia. "See? Told you all foreigners are out to get us." It's a ridiculously passive-aggressive culture. I really love living in Japan but largely in a "gaijin bubble"…. Having to deal with the fake-politeness and face-saving of Japanese culture while coming from a fairly straight-shooting and blunt Marine culture will just make you want to choke people daily. |
Legion 4 | 08 Jan 2017 10:00 a.m. PST |
Well … the WWII forces of Imperial Japan were far from being "magnanimous" with many of the other peoples of the planet. I've heard they still don't talk much about WWII save for after the A-bomb drops … Most of the world have a very bad view of the Japanese involvement/actions in WWII.
The average 30 something in america is also barely aware ww2 even happened.
So very true ! Their lack of knowledge of many things, especially with history is absolutely scary. And made even worse, IMO. By the fact that the readily available internet, albeit having some dubious entities, has so much good information … if you want to look for it. But that is the rub, they don't give a , generally. But they do know what Kim and JLow are doing, the score of last nights games, who is bedding who in Hollywood, etc. … Very sad … The Greatest Generation of WWII may be the last for the USA. |
Skarper | 08 Jan 2017 12:43 p.m. PST |
It remains a huge issue that is actually deteriorating rather than improving. The current Japanese PM has some rather dubious opinions/agenda that includes an unhealthy revisionist streak. I'm with Korea on this point. The victims of Japanese occupation/colonialism were 'compensated' in a crooked deal and the money misappropriated by the Korean government. The Japanese always point to this deal as 'settling' the matter but they knew is was corrupt and for a quite derisory sum of money anyway. The recent deal specifically on the comfort women issue which is too little, too late and is couched in language that does not satisfy the victims at all was rejected by the survivors and Korean society in general. The President who signed off on it is now being impeached and has some staggeringly low approval ratings. Her impeachment is for other issues but illustrates her general lack of integrity. The daughter of a dictator too. At the same time I accept that you can't get younger generations to acknowledge guilt for what happened before they were even born. The people who shaped Japanese WW2 policy were mostly born in the 19th century. I agree it's galling when Japan spits out some half-hearted apology including weasel words that leave the victims more insulted than ever. But equally you don't get a lot of 'sincere apologies' and compensation packages from the European powers for their colonial crimes or from the US for its numerous atrocities. So there is hypocrisy in all quarters. Japan is utterly outrageous on this – but who is truly without sin? I understand why they can't face their past. |
Oberlindes Sol LIC | 08 Jan 2017 1:01 p.m. PST |
Jeff Ewing: Local autonomy is a relatively new thing in South Korea. From liberation until about 1995, the national government controlled the provincial governments, which in turn controlled local governments. I don't believe that sovereignty has ever been recognized below the national level, unlike in the United States, where every state is a sovereign entity that has given up certain prerogatives (notably separate foreign policy, currency, and military forces) to be part of the union. I suspect that even today, the national government could order Pusan to remove the statue. |
Lion in the Stars | 08 Jan 2017 1:31 p.m. PST |
Having to deal with the fake-politeness and face-saving of Japanese culture while coming from a fairly straight-shooting and blunt [American] culture will just make you want to choke people daily. No kidding. |
ochoin | 09 Jan 2017 3:34 a.m. PST |
The Japanese are masters of diplomacy. Their polite, self-effacing demeanour (backed by temper tantrums when necessary) have always been used to good effect. Wanting to "choke" them is understandable, perhaps, but in the diplomatic field, such a tactic won't allow you to reach your goals. I think constant attention to an issue, delivered politely, respectfully & within international structures, is the only answer. In a sense, you are using the Japanese approach against them. Take their "scientific" whaling. Sometimes violent activists such as Greenpeace et al have accomplished nothing apart from allowing the Japanese to rally behind whale-slaughter in self-righteous support. Various anti-whaling governments have pursued the issue in courts & public arenas. See link There's a way to go but that's how diplomacy works. Vis: the statue. How would it be if copies started appearing in various US & other cities? No fuss. No hysteria. Just a nudge. Every visiting leader to Japan should have the issue on the agenda. Just a mention. You can wear down boulders with sand if you're patient. Facing up to your transgressions may be painful but it can have its benefits. It's where healing starts: link |
Highland Samurai 1987 | 09 Jan 2017 5:12 a.m. PST |
There's also the matter of the fact that Japan has addressed this issue with monetary compensation at least twice including just last year. It can easily be argued that this is too little, too late; however these deals were between the Japanese government and the Korean government, which agreed to the terms. From Japan's standpoint the issue has been resolved as one of the terms agreed upon would be that Korea would not pursue this issue. The Korean people should pressure their own government on some of these issues first (with the recent impeachment this wouldn't be unreasonable). Also there is the issue of the Korean government persecution of it's own people. Jeju uprising, Bodo League massacre, Gwangju uprising, and the controversy surrounding the 1988 seoul olympics that only recently surfaced are all examples of this and in some cases these matters have been resolved, but in others they have not and unlike incidents that occurred 75 years ago in many cases the perpetrators are still alive and may have active roles in government. This of course does not make Korea a particularly terrible country, but shows that all nations have skeletons in their closet that need to be sorted out. |
Skarper | 09 Jan 2017 7:00 a.m. PST |
I agree with Highland Samurai 1987. While also accepting there is no comparing and trading off atrocities/crimes. "You bombed our cities so it's less appalling we killed/raped etc X million people. Japan is well into the top division of the league of war crimes. Some other countries barely make division 2 while others are amateurs by comparison. Everyone must be held to the same standards with no false equivalency. That said, the low ranking Japanese officers and rank and file while guilty of terrible deeds were part of larger system that allowed or even encouraged them. Same goes for the Nazis. I think it's a mitigating circumstance of some merit that anyone opposing the Nazi regime was very harshly dealt with. If honest most of us have to admit we might well have done things under such a regime that normally we could not imagine. Some people of course reveled in it all. But most were just cogs in the machine. It seems obvious to outsiders that Japan should be more forthright and sincere with its apologies and remorse. The school syllabus and public discourse also needs to be more in step with accepted historical principles [I hesitate to say 'facts'.] |