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"Cold Wars PEL will be published when???" Topic


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Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP03 Jan 2017 10:03 p.m. PST

I have checked the HMGS site and its Cold Wars sub-site, and sadly nothing is readily apparent.
Dan?
Dan?
Bueller?
Bueller?

teboj1704 Jan 2017 3:49 a.m. PST

I guess you missed the section on Important dates, sadly: hmgs.site-ym.com/?page=CWDates

Schogun Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2017 4:45 a.m. PST

Friday!!!

Andoreth04 Jan 2017 7:27 a.m. PST

OK, so I looked up the acronym PEL and came up with 24 possibles including Potential Evasion Locale and Permissible Exposure Level but none of these seem to fit. So what is a PEL in this context?

teboj1704 Jan 2017 7:34 a.m. PST

Preliminary Event List

47Ronin04 Jan 2017 9:19 a.m. PST

The link to "Important Dates" is correct, but the original publication date for the PEL was in December.

Capncarp isn't the only one who has been checking for the PEL.

We'll see.

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2017 11:14 a.m. PST

I don't know, "Permissible Exposure Level" seems to fit.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2017 4:15 p.m. PST

If seeing listing of games with the term "zombie" or "Sci-Fi" makes you break out in hives, I'd say "Permissible Exposure Level" nails it down pretty well.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP04 Jan 2017 4:25 p.m. PST

Friday???? <drools uncontrollably--at least we think it's drool….>

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2017 5:07 a.m. PST

If seeing listing of games with the term "zombie" or "Sci-Fi" makes you break out in hives, I'd say "Permissible Exposure Level" nails it down pretty well.

Lol!

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP05 Jan 2017 8:26 a.m. PST

Friday….
<singing> "Tomorrow, tomorrow, it's always tomorrow,
It's only a daaaaaaaaayyyyyyy…….
a--waaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyyy!"

Ismar Inactive Member06 Jan 2017 9:19 a.m. PST

So it's Friday, still no PEL.

47Ronin06 Jan 2017 11:06 a.m. PST

Friday isn't over yet, Ismar.

Having said that, I have my doubts that the PEL will be up before the new deadline. Somebody should come up with a "Plan B."

We'll see.

Brian9806 Jan 2017 11:38 a.m. PST

Sometimes silence means that people are actually doing their jobs. The PEL should be up today. They are finalizing it as I write this post. Fingers crossed. Hope this information helps.

Respectfully,
John Spiess
Treasurer, HMGS, Inc.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP06 Jan 2017 2:45 p.m. PST

Thank you, John, and Dan, and all the dedicated folk on the Cold Wars staff.

47Ronin06 Jan 2017 3:20 p.m. PST

Thanks for the update, John.

TSD10106 Jan 2017 7:26 p.m. PST

I'm running Frostgrave Saturday. Children welcome, even encouraged. Will feature a castle and temple and other fun things.

zoneofcontrol Inactive Member07 Jan 2017 5:31 a.m. PST

And here it is:

PDF link

47Ronin07 Jan 2017 8:07 a.m. PST

Thanks for the link, zoneofcontrol.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP07 Jan 2017 6:42 p.m. PST

<dances a little jig of happiness, while emitting an occasional "Squeee!">

47Ronin08 Jan 2017 9:22 a.m. PST

By my count, 278 events in the PEL. Not bad.

Went through the PEL while watching "The Wind and The Lion" as the snow came down outside. Great film. Bob G. turned it into a convention game years ago. Time to bring that game back again.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP08 Jan 2017 2:12 p.m. PST

If anyone is starting to suffer hives from the PEL offerings, I can spare some Benadryl and hydrocortisone cream.

TSD10108 Jan 2017 11:30 p.m. PST

If anyone is starting to suffer hives from the PEL offerings

You probably won't see that until someone does a break down of the games by era and historical vs fantasy vs sci-fi

historygamer09 Jan 2017 5:48 a.m. PST

It is an odd list to say the least. I saw at least a couple of games named after their GMs. A typo?

Also, this theme torpedo's the former treasurer's statement that HMGS would never have a zombie theme as several fantasy games are listed as theme games.

I have no idea the breakdown of games. Hard to say till the final list is put together. Shame that HMGS does not manage its games and gaming area better.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP09 Jan 2017 6:27 a.m. PST

_Does_ a breakdown, or _has_ a breakdown?

historygamer09 Jan 2017 6:38 a.m. PST

I don't know as you seem to be the one spun up about it. Dude. You've posted 8 times on a 25 post thread. Someone seems a bit overly excited about opening his Xmas presents. :-)

kayjay Inactive Member10 Jan 2017 3:35 p.m. PST

"Also, this theme torpedo's the former treasurer's statement that HMGS would never have a zombie theme as several fantasy games are listed as theme games."

What I wrote 4 years ago:

PDF link

article is in this newsletter – the CW theme is
"A Good Day to Die Hard" – not Zombies.

The Colonel KC Inactive Member10 Jan 2017 4:37 p.m. PST

What about a game based on CONPLAN 8888?

historygamer10 Jan 2017 5:50 p.m. PST

You know Kevin, Denial isn't just a river in Egypt. Since your crayon seems to be broken, let me lend you mine to connect the dots:

F: 180 Helm's Deep Rohan Stands Alone Theme Friday, 10:00:00 AM, 4 hrs, 7 Players GM: Ray Shields Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: Fantasy, Scale: 28mm, Rules: GW-Lord of the Rings

F: 175 TRON: Assault on the MCP Theme Friday, 4:00:00 PM, 3 hrs, 7 Players GM: Jp Trostle
Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 6mm, Rules: elecTRON warfare (inspired by Dirtside II)

F: 222 The Wreck of the Fafnir Alpha Theme Friday, 4:00:00 PM, 3 hrs, 4 Players GM: Keith Frye Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 28mm, Rules: 7TV 1st Ed.

F: 365 Frostgrave: A Good Day to Die Cold Theme Friday, 6:00:00 PM, 4 hrs, 6 Players GM: Christopher Palmer & HAWKS Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: Fantasy, Scale: 28mm, Rules: Frostgrave

S: 366 Frostgrave: A Good Day to Die Cold Theme Saturday, 9:00:00 AM, 4 hrs, 6 Players GM: Christopher Palmer & HAWKS Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: Fantasy, Scale: 28mm, Rules: Frostgrave

S: 145 Emerald Station is Down: Learn to Play Infinity Theme Saturday, 10:00:00 AM, 4 hrs, 8 Players GM: Stefan Sheckells Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 28mm, Rules: Infinity

S: 223 The Wreck of the Fafnir Alpha Theme Saturday, 1:00:00 PM, 3 hrs, 4 Players GM: Keith Frye Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 28mm, Rules: 7TV 1st Ed.

S: 224 ROLLERBALL World Championship Theme Saturday, 2:00:00 PM, 3 hrs, 4 Players GM: Jp Trostle
Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: Future, Scale: 40mm, Rules: Rulerball

S: 152 The Destroyermen Series: The Battle for Baalkpan Theme Saturday, 4:00:00 PM, 6 hrs, 10 Players GM: Leo Walsh Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 15mm, Rules: Unpublished

S: 354 Star Wars Day Comes to Schlegel's Ferry Theme Saturday, 7:00:00 PM, 3 hrs, 6 Players GM: Gregory Priebe & HAWKS Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: Modern, Scale: 28mm, Rules: The Doctor Who Miniatures Game 2nd edition (modified)

Z: 185 Eat Hitler Theme Sunday, 10:00:00 AM, 2 hrs, 16 Players GM: Brendan Watts Sponsor: None, Prize: None
Period: SciFi, Scale: 25mm, Rules: Howard Whitehouse's Eat Hitler, the Nazi Taste Treat.

So please, parse words, point out that not one of those fantasy/sci-fi games is a zombie game (well, maybe the eat Hitler's one?) so we can all see how empty the argument is that HMGS could never (ahem) run a zombie theme. I guess that's like saying you are just a little bit pregnant. :-)

And for the record, I did see a Zombie civil war game listed as a theme game a while back. So is there a disconnect between what the BoD wants and what is going on at the cons?

Of course numerous fantasy figures have also won awards during the painting competitions too, and not all the game winners at the cons have been historical either.

I guess a little bit pregnant indeed. :-)

historygamer11 Jan 2017 9:51 a.m. PST

Was that an article on Mein Zombie I saw in the HMGS newsletter?

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2017 3:50 a.m. PST

Let the twisting of the panties commence.

ViscountEric12 Jan 2017 7:50 a.m. PST

So eleven games out of the nineteen theme games are non-historical? I blame the confusing convention theme rather the devil may care attitude of the board for the downfall of Society (HMG or otherwise).

God knows what would have happened if the Gnome crew scheduled a full allotment of games. At least 50% of those were historical based.

historygamer12 Jan 2017 8:39 a.m. PST

Just wow. Is English your second language?

The discussion was:

That HMGS would never run a zombie (and by extension sci-fi) themed convention.

Yet the list from the PEL, as published by HMGS, clearly shows that such games are listed as theme games. Therefore, HMGS is running a theme that can be interpreted by some as SciFi (some of you should like that).

There is a potion of the newsletter dealing with Mein Zombie, along with another SciFi topic.

I am not commenting on the number of games

I am not commenting on such games being at an HMGS convention.

Lemonade man, lemonade. Got it?

And Bowman, I am sorry to hear your underwear is causing you problems. Try boxers.

historygamer12 Jan 2017 9:42 a.m. PST

Viscount:

My response was not directed at you. I agree, it was a nebulous theme phrase that was never given any clarification by anyone associated with the organization.

But the fact any game that wants to can be listed as a theme games shows:

1. Zombie/scifi could be a theme, and in this case is shown to be by the games listed as theme games,

2. Themes have become meaningless, and perhaps are scraping the bottom of the barrel, and

3. There is no oversight going on at the store.

While the nebulous theme phrase (unrelated to history as far as anyone can tell) is part to blame (someone did ask for clarification on another thread and was never answered), so to is the person who passed these games on as theme games. This shows there are no internal controls within HMGS to prevent a zombie/sci fi themed convention. It will be interesting to see if these games make it to the final program that way, or if the convention staff does some editing and perhaps clarifies what does and does not qualify as a theme game.

It's not like someone didn't ask.

TMP link

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2017 11:52 a.m. PST

Just wow. Is English your second language?

Says the person who can't tell the difference between the HMGS not having a "Zombie" theme, and GM's playing zombie games to fit the existing convention theme.

Seriously, if this is really what you need to spend your righteous indignation on, wouldn't it be far better if you avoid the HMGS conventions all together? We are playing with toy soldiers and you're acting as if we are withholding life saving medicine from helpless infants. Isn't there something more important you can direct this "Sturm und Drang" on?

historygamer12 Jan 2017 1:02 p.m. PST

I'm sorry Bowman. I missed the announcement where you were put in charge of everyone's opinion. You might also want to call the police on that guy forcing you to read and comment (even when you have nothing relevant to add) on everything too.

To your comment:

"…can't tell the difference between the HMGS not having a "Zombie" theme, and GM's playing zombie games to fit the existing convention theme."

Right, I can't, because to any reasonable person, there is none. And it just goes to show that HMGS can indeed have a SciFi theme con, unlike what Kevin said. Or can't you determine that based on the facts in front of you? If not, then I guess Eat Hitler is a culinary workshop.

47Ronin12 Jan 2017 2:57 p.m. PST

At the risk of throwing myself between Historygamer and Bowman and coming away mortally wounded, I took a look at the PEL last night with reference to historical vs. non-historical games.

While we wait for a more detailed and "official" breakdown from Walt's pre-convention Guidebook post, by my count 63 of the 278 games in the PEL fall into the "Fantasy--SciFi--Victorian SciFi" category. (FYI, setting your Zombie game in WW2 does not make it a WW2 game, IMHO, no matter how often you list it as a WW2 game. I actually go through all the game descriptions.) The slightly higher number than usual comes from the large number of Frostgrave events in the PEL. (There is also a Frostgrave tournament on Friday. There are many more historical tournaments than non-historical tournaments.) Obviously, if a few GMs or Clubs decide to run a particular game for whatever reason (such as promoting a particular period or set of rules or figures), it is easy to impact the overall total of Fantasy/SciFi games.

I was also going to count up the theme vs. non-theme games, but it was getting late and I didn't think it would be an issue. Silly me. I should have known better. Maybe I'll look at it over the weekend.

We now return you to the historical vs. non-historical cage match.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP12 Jan 2017 3:35 p.m. PST

But 47Ronin, vee haff not completely eradicated der nein-historiche spielen! Zey must be _crushed_!!!

47Ronin12 Jan 2017 4:44 p.m. PST

The more you post, capncarp, the more I laugh.

Thanks for making my day.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2017 7:00 a.m. PST

"Thanks for making my day."

Just doing my duty to combat over-seriousness and anal-retentiveness, citizen.
Up! Up, and Awayyyyyy!

historygamer13 Jan 2017 9:20 a.m. PST

Congrats to those trying to hijack this and turn it into a historical vs non-historical thread. Again (for those that can actually read English) that is not my point at all. I am not commenting on non-historical games running at the cons at all.

Say it with me theme. Theme. Theme. No, don't look at that squirrel over there. Stay focused on the word "theme."

That is all my point was about. Nothing else. Start your own thread if you have a different point or your own agenda to advance. The number of types of games in the PEL is meaningless as that is not the final offering anyway.

My point remains that the organization said there never would be a zombie (and by extension Sci Fi) theme convention. Clearly there now is. For those that read English. Can focus beyond their now agenda. That's it folks. :-)

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2017 11:32 a.m. PST

I'm sorry Bowman. I missed the announcement where you were put in charge of everyone's opinion.

For someone always carping on other people's ability to read English, please show where I said anything of the sort. I have no interest in curtailing your opinion. Straw Man.

I am not commenting on non-historical games running at the cons at all.

Including your 10 Jan 2017 5:50 p.m. PST entry, the longest post in the thread?

Right, I can't, because to any reasonable person, there is none.

Subtlety of thought isn't your strong point, is it? A theme that can apply to a historical game and also a non-historical game is not the same as formulating a non-historical theme as a policy. That is a false equivalency. Sorry you don't see the distinction.

That is all my point was about. Nothing else. Start your own thread if you have a different point or your own agenda to advance.

So you follow your own advice? This thread is about when the Cold Wars PEL is coming out. You were the one doing the derailing by suggesting the fiction that HMGS has a "zombie theme" (09 Jan 2017 5:48 a.m. PST) The rest was fallout from that.

historygamer13 Jan 2017 11:44 a.m. PST

"For someone always carping on other people's ability to read English, please show where I said anything of the sort. I have no interest in curtailing your opinion."

Of course. Then you keep commenting on my posts because…. ????

"Subtlety of thought isn't your strong point, is it?"

Oh, right. You only post to insult me. Got it.

"A theme that can apply to a historical game and also a non-historical game is not the same as formulating a non-historical theme."

Which ignores that facts that a.) Kevin said that would never happen, and b.) HMGS was never founded or intended to support or promote anything other than historical gaming. That does not preclude such games from taking place, but that is not their mission. Oh, right. You think that is a bunch of nonsense. So no one else's opinion counts. Got it.

"This thread is about when the Cold Wars PEL is coming out"

Right got, it. It's only my posts that aren't allowed to deviate from the thread. That is unless you are ignoring capncarp's not so subtle swipe when he said..

"If anyone is starting to suffer hives from the PEL offerings, I can spare some Benadryl and hydrocortisone cream."

Then TSD101 replied:

"You probably won't see that until someone does a break down of the games by era and historical vs fantasy vs sci-fi"

The capncarp said…
"_Does_ a breakdown, or _has_ a breakdown?"

So I am unclear. Am I the only one not allowed to deviate from what you think is permissible to post? It sure seems that way.

I would point out that all those posts long precluded my post on the themed sci fi events, but again, you seem to focus on me otherwise your narrative doesn't hold up. Got it.

I guess that means you care. :-)

Personal logo Bowman Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2017 11:53 a.m. PST

I guess that means you care. :-)

I do ;-)

47Ronin13 Jan 2017 2:51 p.m. PST

Bowman vs. Historygamer, Round Two: as entertaining as Round One.

Just to add more fuel to the fire, I took a look at the PEL for "theme vs. non-theme" games and "historical theme" vs. "Fantasy/SciFi theme" games on the train ride home today. (More interesting than reading the paper.) I'll post the results over the weekend. They may surprise some people.

Speaking of hijacking, our distinguished colleague raises an interesting point: could a group of SciFi/Fantasy gamers, intent on flooding an HMGS convention with such games, pull off such a coup? (Sort of like electing a small band to the Board of Directors and then voting to move a convention to VA, NJ, or even AK or HI.) As things stand, there's no real mechanism to stop such a move.

Stay tuned.

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP13 Jan 2017 5:56 p.m. PST

Dammit, Bowman, using logic and a fella's own words to make him look like a…well, look bad, that's just not sporting.

Charlie 1213 Jan 2017 6:24 p.m. PST

capncarp- I must say, your failure to grasp the gravity of this situation is appalling! Don't you know the very future of civilization hangs in the balance?!?!? Such frivolity cannot be tolerated… Report to Room 101, forthwith!

historygamer13 Jan 2017 7:37 p.m. PST

I'm curious if any of you have a point to make I mean other than personal or belittling attacks? I have read back through your posts and I can't find one.

Facts? Okay, here you go. From the HMGS webpage:

"HMGS, Inc. is a non-profit, charitable and educational 501(c)3 organization whose purpose is to promote the study of military history through the art of tabletop miniature wargaming."

But of course, you are all right. I mean with the growth of such games, and now the inclusion of sci fi and fantasy theme games, we'll be seeing more record numbers attend and these games will help fulfill the corporation's mission. No?

Well, maybe they encourage more people interested in military history to attend? No?

Oh, right. It's what you want. Got it.

Charlie 1213 Jan 2017 7:43 p.m. PST

I'm curious if any of you have a point to make I mean other than personal or belittling attacks?

Oh, but we do have a definite point…. That getting your panties in bunch over this lame issue is the height of comedy! (And he who does get said panties in a bunch, is fair game… much to their chagrin…) grin

historygamer13 Jan 2017 7:50 p.m. PST

So again, you have no point, other than personal attacks. Got it.

I am curious Charlie. Can you tell us all what positions within HMGS you have volunteered for? I'm just trying to understand your contributions to the organization and what it might mean to you.

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