"Fetterman Fight - Cheyenne Account " Topic

"After a little time a single shot was heard. Later it was said that when the young men who had been sent to the fort had charged the post they had killed a
sentry. This was the shot. A long period of silence followed, during which they waited and listened; then a number of shots were heard, but the firing lasted for a few minutes only. It was afterward said that some troops came out from the fort as if to attack the decoy Indians and then turned back and went into
the fort and that someone who was with the soldiers made motions to the young Indians to go away, that the soldiers were going to eat. This was the Indian understanding of the signs, whatever they may have been.

The Sioux signed back to them that to-day they would get a full stomach of fighting. The soldiers re-entered the post and the young Indians remained in sight riding about.

After a time a number of bugle-calls were heard and soon after a troop of cavalry marched out of the post toward these young men, and after them a company of infantry. At a bugle-call the cavalry charged and fired at the Indians who, of course, ran away. This was the distant shooting heard.

It was some time before the watchers heard any more shooting. The cavalry after firing had stopped, and would follow no longer, and the Indians were obliged to return and attack again, be shot at, and followed a little farther. In this way the infantry kept well closed up with the cavalry, which was perhaps the reason the cavalry followed slowly…."
More here
dariocaballeros.blogspot.com.ar

Amicalement
Armand

Been to the battle site..Fetterman said he could ride thru the entire Sioux Nation w/ 76 td men..just never said how long.. the battlefield is nothing xbut rolling hills and Prairie..easy to hide and ambush.

I'm a few miles away from the site. Snow covered now, as it probably was then. Only cover is folds in the ground.

I have also been to the site and Fetterman was fooled and his Men paid the price.

It is a very unsettling battlefield. We've been there several times. Virtually pristine….and spooky.

Walked it a few times. Think ah read that the lower ground (either side of the ridge) was pretty well forested ?
Thought Fetterman said he'd ride thru the sioux nation with 80 men ? He had 81 when hit bit the big one.

was there in September. very spooky place.

Anyone have wargame this…? (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

I had never even heard of this fight and have just spent an enlightening hour or so reading all the articles about it I could find. Fascinating. Thanks for the nudge, Armand!

Note: From all that I just read Fetterman actually did nothing wrong, NEVER said the famous quote attributed to him, and Grummond was the one who pretty much caused them all to get trapped and killed. Fetterman was apparently inaccurately portrayed a disobedient hothead by Carrington and his wife.

A votre service mon cher ami!. (smile)

Amicalement
Armand

Nazrat please check out The Fetterman Massacre (formerly, 'Fort Phil Kearney: An American Saga) Paperback – September 1, 1970 by Dee Brown or Red cloud's war. Both excellent books on the action.

Fetterman was in a pissing Match with Carrington over command of the unit. ( Fetterman had a bervot Generalship in ACW) but Carrington was higher ranked in the Regular army.

He was told to near cross the ridge, but he did anyway.

Wackmole 9, Actually Nazrat is probably right. Brown's "The Fetterman Massacre, aka Fort Phil Kearney:An American Saga was originally written in 1962 by Dee Brown (who never visited the site of the fight or Fort Phil Kearny until many years after he wrote the book. While it is a very interesting read, it is filled with several factual errors and its interpretation is based almost entirely on Col Carrington (and his two wives) narratives. More modern research(John H. Monnetts"Where a Hundred Soldiers Were Killed" and Shannon Smith's "Give Me Eighty Men" both identify Lt Grummond as the most likely instigator of the actions resulting in the "Massacre" oh, and the huge numbers of Sioux and Cheyennes involved. Oh, and BTW, Fetterman's brevet was only to Lt Col., not general, in the ACW.

I wouldn't claim to be "right", but I did read a bunch of different sources the other day, assessed the info, and decided what sounded like the most probable scenario. to me. I really hate the scapegoating that can occur in situations like this. Fetterman sounded like he was a good commander in the ACW and I can't imagine he suddenly became some blood crazed insubordinate officer as soon as he got out west.

The most important fact in the whole matter was NOBODY could have expected 1000-2000 (depending on which account you read) Indians to be waiting for the US force when they left the fort. Which explains the quote from Carrington that after the attack on the wood train ended Fetterman was "moving wisely [italics added] up the creek and along the southern slope of Lodge Trail Ridge with good promise of cutting off the Indians as they should withdraw." So he thought there was no danger and wasn't claiming insubordination at all (at the time).

This page link really gave the most balanced account I read.

I had read Brown's FPK book way back in 1962 when it came out and re-read it in 2013. At that time I accepted his account which essentially was the picture presented by Carrington and his first and second wives. Wanting to learn more about the Ft Phil Kearny Saga, I found Monet's book (he is also the author of the link "nazrat" references above and Shannon Smith's book "Give Me Eighty Men" to provide a different view point from Brown's, based on more recent scholarship, a view that I am inclined to believe is somewhat closer to "the truth". I will grant that no one ever be able to definitively establish what exactly happened there or what went through the minds of the 3 officers (Fetterman, Brown and Grummond) there on the north slope of Lodge Trail Ridge 150 years ago last week.

Are there any movie about this battle?

Amicalement
Armand

The closest movie was probably made in the 50s called the Last Frontier with Victor Mature and Robert Preston. By closest, I mean there was some resemblence to the Fetterman "Massacre". Actually the best overall was a 1-hour TV show "Massacre at Fort Phil Kearny" with Robert Fuller in the role of Capt Fetterman and Richard Eagen as Col Carrington and Carroll O'Connor as Capt Tenedore Ten Eyck. I think this was made around 1960. Portrays the conflict between the fort's officers pretty well IIRC, but stops with Fuller/Fetterman leading his 80 men out on their "ride to destity."

Many thanks my friend…

So… nobody made a film of the battle per se…

Amicalement
Armand

Not of any length or detail that I am aware of. I think there have been some made-TV-Movies (maybe "Crazy Horse" and/or "Bury my Heart at Wounded Knee" that show a one or two minute segment but are worthless for understanding the battle.