"US Regimental and National Colors" Topic

Hi Guys
A question on US Colors (Flags) carried by Regiments.
If a Regiment was divided into two 'Divisions' / Battalions in battle where were the Colors placed?
Were they posted with one of the Divisions and the other went without?
Cheers

Assuming they followed British practice, which I think they did where this is concerned, the Colours always went where the Colonel went. So they would have stayed with him or with which ever Wing he attached himself to.

Assuming that the modern US Army follows its own traditions then the colors belong with the commander, so Trajanus is correct.

First off, it would be pretty rare for a regiment to be split up like that. Sometimes a newly raised regiment which might have been very large (8-900 men) might be split into its two wings for tactical convenience, but they would usually be kept close together on the battlefield and the Colonel would command it like a demi-brigade, the Lt. Col. commanding the right wing and the Major the left. (I've done that a number of times as a reenactment commander.) In that case, the colors would be with the right wing (since they would be in the 5th company which would be the color company in a ten company regiment. If the split was of a more permanent nature then I suppose it would be possible to provide colors and flank markers for both battalions. But again, that was pretty rare.

When the 54th Mass. split into 2 battalions to assault Battery Wagner, the colonel commanded the leading battalion and took the national colors, and the lt. col. commanded the trailing battalion with the state/regimental colors.

Hi Guys

Assuming they followed British practice, which I think they did where this is concerned, the Colours always went where the Colonel went. So they would have stayed with him or with which ever Wing he attached himself to.

Say What!?!?!
British Battalions have their own colours.
So The 1st and 2nd (and 3rd if raised) Battalions carry both Sovereign and Regimental colours, EACH.
This is true even today.
Oh, and just FYI, The Colours in British (Australian, NZ Canadian etc) Regiments DON'T belong to the Colonel. They belong to the Sovereign and The Regiment. COs come and go but The Regiment is a constant.
The Royal Australian Regiment for example has EIGHT (8) Battalions for a total of 16 Regimental colours (8 each of Sovereign and Regimental).

Anyway,…

When the 54th Mass. split into 2 battalions to assault Battery Wagner, the colonel commanded the leading battalion and took the national colors, and the lt. col. commanded the trailing battalion with the state/regimental colors.

I suspected this might be an option.

First off, it would be pretty rare for a regiment to be split up like that.

I realise that.

Sometimes a newly raised regiment which might have been very large (8-900 men) might be split into its two wings for tactical convenience, but they would usually be kept close together on the battlefield and the Colonel would command it like a demi-brigade, the Lt. Col. commanding the right wing and the Major the left. (I've done that a number of times as a reenactment commander.) In that case, the colors would be with the right wing (since they would be in the 5th company which would be the color company in a ten company regiment. If the split was of a more permanent nature then I suppose it would be possible to provide colors and flank markers for both battalions. But again, that was pretty rare.

Again I thought that might be the option if the Regiment was deploying in two divisions side by side.

Thanks
Merry Christmas

trailape

You miss understood my point. I was referring to what happens in a single battalion. I'm well aware of how many colours are/were carried and their presentation by the Sovereign.

Also that Guards Regiments have a different system to the line and that the RHA don't have colours on parade and the cavalry didn't carry theirs on campaign and all the rest of it.

However:

Technically, an ACW Regiment was the same as a British single battalion regiment, or one battalion from a multipul battalion regiment acting alone as they did in Spain, for example. That's why I made the comparison.

RHA don't have colours on parade

Sorry to seem picky but ALL Royal Artillery, (RHA, RA, RAA, RCA, RCHA, RNZA) have their Colours on parade,…
The GUNS are The Regiment's Colours. So if on Parade with their Guns, (which is almost always the case), then they have their Colours with them.

Yeah, sorry for not going down another level of detail. I was thinking about Colours as in flags which was where we started.

The Kings Troop RHA – The ones in period style uniform who's ceremonial and display duties involved the horse drawn WW1 guns – for anyone who's seen them – take precedence over other units on parade, when present with their pieces, for that reason.

ScottWashburn has it correct.

There were times when the flags were split up. TrailApe is correct regarding the 54th Mass.

Sometimes, regiments had more than 1 battalion. The US Regulars, for example, were designed for 2 Battalions per regiment. The regulations state that the national colors were to be with the 1st Battalion, and the regimental colors with the 2nd Battalion, unless they were serving together.

Of course, that was pre-war, and when the war started, the federal government decided to take the 2nd battalion of each regiment and make it a new regiment with it's own colors. Thus the federal battalions got their two colors again.

In a similar vein to the 54th Mass, the 1st Maine Heavy Artillery was divided into 2 battalions, and carried both colors together. HOWEVER, in it's assault at Petersburg, the regimental color was detailed, with a guard, to the 2nd battalion. It seemed to be a pattern, (from my reading) that Heavy Artillery regiments in the field carried one stand of colors (national and regimental) except when assaulting/attacking by battalions, wherein the 1st battalion received the national color, and the 2nd battalion got the regimental.

BTW, during the Overland Campaign, when all those heavy artillery regiments joined Grant in the field, they made QUITE an impression on the rest of the Army.

At Spotsylvania, John Haley of the 17th Maine writes in his memoirs (The Rebel Yell and the Yankee Hurrah!) that his smallish regiment was sent off to one flank to support a brigade that had gotten into trouble with the rebs. That "brigade"was the 1st Maine heavy Artillery. It was so big, that it was the size of a normal brigade of infantry at that time, casualties and all considered.

In the early days of the War the "California Regiment" (later the 71st PVI, was a two national regiment. The first battalion was sent to Ball's Bluff while the second remained on picket along the Potomac. The Colors went (and were lost not captured, lost) with the first battalion.