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"Cogs Wars?" Topic


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789 hits since 19 Dec 2016
©1994-2024 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Leadjunky19 Dec 2016 9:02 p.m. PST

We're medieval ships mounted with ballista or any war engines or guns? Or just archers and boarders?

Nick Bowler19 Dec 2016 9:06 p.m. PST

During the siege of Constantinople in 1204 apparently there were all sorts of siege engines on the crusaders boats.

Andrew Walters20 Dec 2016 2:35 p.m. PST

It's really annoying that such records of the time that exist had no regard for future wargamers.

We have really poor information about how these ships were fitted out. If anyone has a link or two I would love to see them, since I have some cog ideas flitting about my head. In the meantime, we can work with this:

1) There were few purpose-built warships. Most were commandeered merchant ships. They threw the platforms on and that was that. The few that were built by the nobility to give them standing naval capability weren't constructed any differently that merchant cogs. Since ships were called up for battle and then returned to commercial work they might be outfitted differently from one season to the next. So there is no Jane's, no Anthony Roll, nothing. You call up all the men and ships you can and have at it. No way to run a railroad.

2) The engines probably didn't make a big difference. I believe this because when one element of a force makes a disproportionate impact, like cannon, hoplites, cavalry, armored divisions, etc, the records make a point of mentioning numbers. What we have doesn't mention the big weapons with any emphasis, so I conclude that they were nice to have by didn't make the difference that a six pounder made to a company of regulars in the French and Indian Wars.

3) When they had guns they probably used them shotgun style – load them with bits and fire at close range. They wouldn't have been very good at range even if the hull shape and rigging of cogs didn't make them poor firing platforms. I bet in practice the longbows had a better range than the guns. Guns are still scary, though, and if fired right before boarding they do a lot for moral and make things easier for boarders.

Constantinople was different. They anticipated and prepared for assaulting walls. I don't think those ships were typical. But then, everything was ad hoc anyway.

Leadjunky20 Dec 2016 5:35 p.m. PST

Maybe I should just base mine in Westeros or some similar setting and equip them as I see fit. Sounds more interesting. Thanks.

Puster Sponsoring Member of TMP21 Dec 2016 7:18 a.m. PST

Effective anti-ship guns were, afaik, introduced by the Portogese from 1470 to 1490. Medieval ships will not likely field more then anti-personal machines. Considering that anti-personal ammunition for guns (like grape or canister) was also unheard of – afaik the first widespread usage was during the Hussite wars, and then nothing again for a century or so – I think guns are unlikely.

Leadjunky24 Dec 2016 7:31 p.m. PST

Looks like the first guns of any size and number didn't become common until post 1500.

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