"South Sudan on 'brink of ethnic civil war'" Topic

"The UN's human rights envoy for South Sudan has called for troops to be deployed in the African country. Ongoing violence is raising concerns about a looming genocide similar to the one in Rwanda.

UN experts called for a strengthening of peacekeeping forces in South Sudan during a session of the Human Rights Council in Geneva on Wednesday, warning that the country was on the verge of slipping into further violence.

Speaking before the council, Yasmin Sooka, the UN's chief human rights expert for South Sudan, said signs pointing toward mass atrocities in the east-central African nation were already apparent, such as increasingly polarized ethnic identities and a culture of denial…"
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Amicalement
Armand

Again …

How about a no-fly zone with authority to bomb the perpetrators of the genocide?

The Chinese have a contingent there I think, but they are not authorized to intervene on behalf of the civilians, being there only to safeguard Chinese oil interests.

How's about we mind our own business … this time … for once ? Let the UN set up refugee camps, Doc's Without Borders show up, etc. And no more US/Western troops die for really no reason. If we've learned anything from getting involved in Iraq, Syria, Libya, A'stan, Somalia, etc., … There is nothing the West can really do to stop anything that goes on in places like this.

If we go we are invaders, Crusaders, etc., and few want us there.

If we don't go we're thoughtless racists, who have no empathy for people other than Westerners …

We have to learn … nothing like this has worked out … for anyone.

South Sudan is probably easier to intervene in than many places – it's only 6% Muslim and mostly Christian.

The west could stop it – I doubt the military is up to much and I doubt their soldiers have the requsite skilsl to make IEDs etc.

People forget the Iraqi Army, while poorly lead, was quite sophisticated. The soldiers weren't cattle herders…

Why risk anymore Western lives ? After all the blood & treasure spent/wasted in the region and near-by regions. It just does not seem worth it anymore, IMO.

Iraqi Army, while poorly lead, was quite sophisticated.

While poorly lead, poorly motivated, demonstrated limited field craft, poor tactical & technical expertise, etc., … Regardless of how much hi-tech equipment they possessed.

They only became effective to any level was in an urban insurgency. Which is one of the most difficult missions for any military to be tasked to defeat.

Let the UN hire a PMC outfit to sort and bolster the national contingents that appear to be weak,inefficient and occasionally part of the problem. Gurkha's and a bunch of experienced veterans would shake the tree……
From reports elsewhere, the civil war hasn't stopped since the division from Sudan…….

Hire Mercenaries !!!!? Heaven forbid, some of the intellectual academics here will claim you are a "witch" and be sentence to be burned at the stake.

Regardless of how poorly the standard UN forces generally perform in most situations. And the fact that a well trained PMC force could actually probably stop of the killing/genocide.

But again the intellectual academics might be upset that the PMC/"Mercs" may have to "kill" some of those forces that are trying to commit the genocide. They just all should sit down and talk about their differences and that should do it …

South Sudan has been in a defacto civil war since 2013 and as part of greater Sudan since 1991. Tens of thousands have perished in political, ethnic and resource based violence. It is only now becoming an issue because western interests are concerned with Chinese influence in the region. The battling between the South Sudanese President's and opposing Vice President's factions are at the root of this present day violence and as usual control of oil extraction rights and royalties are the prizes. Perhaps it's time to outlaw blood-oil like we tried to do with blood-diamonds from Africa?

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Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Hey, I'm all for ending imports of any oil that doesn't come from Canada or Mexico.

Amen ! Any oil that comes from the Mid East or Africa … has a "taint" about it …

There are two or three battalions of Chinese peacekeepers making sure that that oil keeps flowing to China and the rest of the world and the only reason the West is interested is to control that oil flow. The US is not the only market for oil. And while we're on the subject of ethical energy sources, maybe it's time for Canada to review oil/gas/electrical exports to the USA? Perhaps a cold, dark winter would cool your globalist ambitions and readjust your national policies? Is it time to bend the knee to the Sheikhs of the North?

The tribal council/loya jirga of Canukistan will insist you adopt socialised, single-payer health care and replace all Dunkin Donuts with Tim Hortons Doughnuts! Hockey and Lacrosse will replace baseball and golf and you will be forced to correct your heretical version of football! Basketball, being a Canadian sport in origin, will be tolerated but taxed heavily. Prepare to bow before your Canadian overlords and learn to apologise eloquently and continuously.

Moo-haha!
Rod Robertson.

Keep hoping Canuckistan ! Frankly, the USA should get all it's oil from Canada, Mexico, and anywhere else that could reduce the need for Mid East oil.

The Saudis will have a hard time funding islamic terrorism if they run out of $$$$. Then they can gag all on their oil ! And the rest of the near by oil kingdoms can do the same !

Not only does the US get our oil, it often gets it at below the cost of production, which requires Canadians to pay sky-high oil prices including astronomical taxes for huge subsidies and price supports for US owned Canadian oil producers. Those same oil companies export their profits south of the border so our capital accounts go into the deep negatives too. Then the US refines some of our cheap oil and exports it abroad to make even greater profits from Canadian tax-payer-subsidised crude. Canadian national policy with respect to oil is stupid from a Canadian perspective. We have to import very expensive foreign oil into Eastern Canada in order to sustain such exports to the US. We are, like South Sudan, a de facto colony of foreign oil interests. We're just too polite to kill each other as we fight for the scraps from the share-holders' feast.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Not only does the US get our oil,

Yes a lot of actresses from Canada come to the USA too !

Canadian national policy with respect to oil is stupid from a Canadian perspective.

Well you have to make better deals with your clients … like the USA …

to intervene in South Sudan to protect ,as it has been overdue and undone for years, the Christian population???…i'm sure NATO, EC etcc.todays leaders..will never have the will to do such a right war…is far more easy to make fake wars to export supposed to be democracy while , de facto, helping a vast array of tirants, puppets, corrupted sathaps and extremists animals..in fact all the possible historical ennemies of Western people..instead of really protecting the most persecuted majority of the world..teh Christians.

We always hear on the media about moslem refugees from the Mid East, Africa, etc., … But I've never heard very much about any Christian or other religions' refugees ? Well hopefully who ever they are and where they are from … they all get to some sort safety, etc., …

Legion, Australia took on a reasonable number of South Sudanese refugees and it has been an unmitigated disaster. Very few have integrated to any degree to living in Australia. There is a very large number who were criminalised and their community leaders just cry racism and refuse to help their wayward youth.

And Sudanese crime actually takes a form of terrorism – rioting, carjacking, massed home invasion, mass vandalism etc.

Look up Apex gang. They were just in the news today for mass vandalism of cars and potential involvement in a mass brawl at a Melbourne McDonalds (150 people involved).

These are people who come from a culture that knows only violence be it against the Arabs or each other. It is a culture where vicious violence towards women is acceptable.

Suffice to say South Sudan was black marked as a source of refugees and Australia no longer accepts from there for these reasons.

Deadles…very interesting this black marking of Christians refugees…i'm almost sure those animals that arrassed and stalked..if not worst.. German teenage women in germany while the police and the authorities tried to downplay those criminal acts..belong to the same inacceptable vicious Christian culture..is'n it?

Good to know Deales & ITALWARS … Too bad, as we see in other countries as well. That take in refugees of any religion or culture, etc., some don't at least have a little respect and common decency of their "hosts' " culture and customs, etc., … Good acceptable behavior does not/should not be based on religion, etc.

Certainly assaulting local females is totally unacceptable by any standards. And it always bothers me when I see military age male refugees. Whom I'd think would/could stay in their homeland and fight their attackers, etc. But since I'm not there … I'm sure they may have their "reasons". But it still makes me think they are "questionable" refugees …

And some crimes like you both mentioned should be a one way ticket back to the places they came from. Or at least to a place like Gitmo.

Legion 4 and Italwars:

Echoes of past history?

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Rod Robertson.

Legion – in the case of the Syrian refugees…. which side would you fight for?

Assad? al-Nusra?

If you think both are as bad as each other, then ge tout and protect your family… unless you like the diea of leaving your wife and kids in the hand sof people smugglers..

there are good reaosns for young men to leave.

The US has an army of Community Organizers and Social Justice Warriors that can go over there to fundamentally change Sudan into a Socialist paradise and George Soros will pick up the tab.

Wolfhag

Legion – in the case of the Syrian refugees…. which side would you fight for?

Assad? al-Nusra?

If you think both are as bad as each other, then ge tout and protect your family… unless you like the diea of leaving your wife and kids in the hand sof people smugglers..

And yet there appears there is nothing that anyone can really do. But there are 400 US troops in Syria, 5000 in Iraq, 10,000 in A'stan.

there are good reaosns for young men to leave.

I'm glad none of the members of the American Revolutionaries against the Red Coats and Hessians didn't think the same. In 1775 …

Or all the foreign males [and females] from countries that managed to fight a guerilla war or join the Allies in WWII. To take the fight to the Nazis and Japanese.

So these male refugees from arab/moslem counties must be different. I guess ? Thank you for pointing that out to me. They seem to have taken the easiest choice … to leave … and let someone else fight their battles. IMO, of course …

Echoes of past history?

Yes, Rod I know about Sacco and Vanzetti etc. And my Father told me about Italian Catholics not being hired by "WASPs" because of ethnicity, religion, etc.

As well as incidents of cross burnings in some Italian Catholics front yards. In the USA, in Ohio. When my Father was a child. Please spare me the attempts at your version of moral equivalency, etc., etc., … again …

The US has an army of Community Organizers and Social Justice Warriors that can go over there to fundamentally change Sudan into a Socialist paradise and George Soros will pick up the tab.

I think that is a workable solution. All that is missing is the will !

R I R…i imagine that the only "violence Vs foreign women" supposly done by Italians..like me for example..could only be to refuse over copious feminine courting …, as you probably are very aware of and maybe jealous..and probably also in your very country…we are certainly more succesful than other male colleagues who prefer drink beer all the night..

we are certainly more succesful than other male colleagues who prefer drink beer all the night..

LOL ! +1

"violence Vs foreign women"

I'm an Italian-American … such acts are not a predilection of any race or ethnicity. At least not in the USA.

i don't think so Legion 4..try to make a comparison between Coran and Christian texts..and if it's not sufficient try a statistic anthropological approach between for exmaple way of wage war and actitude toward civilians in nowdays ME War Vs terror..Mali, Irak, Syria ecc…and..maybe attitude of Argentian forces Vs Falklands villagers or British Army in N. Ireland…never such a violence if civilised , possibly Christian armies are involved

Legion 4 and Italwars:

My point was not that Italians were bad, they are not. My point was that Americans spoke and acted as though Italians were predisposed toward violence and crime, when in fact the vast majority were hardworking and law-abiding immigrants who just wanted to make a better life for themselves and their families.

I had hoped that those who were singled out for prejudice and bigotry in the past would be less susceptible to repeating it against others today. Perhaps my hope was misplaced? Those who don't learn the errors of the past are condemned to repeat them. Some Somalis down-under are misbehaving. That is not a valid reason for condemning all of them and refusing them entry as refugees and immigrants. If they are found guilty of serious crimes, deport them. If not, leave them alone.

Rod Robertson.

i don't think so Legion 4

I do see your point. But
I'm trying to be magnanimous, open minded, and giving all the benefit of the doubt. But again, I see your point.

possibly Christian armies are involved

For a long time Christians were innocent of few things …

My point was not that Italians were bad, they are not.

You have not met some of my relatives and their friends. Well … the few that are still alive …

If they are found guilty of serious crimes, deport them. If not, leave them alone.

If it were only that easy.

maybe i misunderstood your point Rod..and sorry for that..but ..in any case…it's really hard to pretend to compare US attempt to hit politically Italian immigrants during Sacco & Vanzetti era (they were socialist o a potential subversive danger)..and muslim supposed to be refugees, all of almost all males, almost all predators, allmost all enraged..that have no idea of how to behave in the civilised countries that host them..for the simple fact that their religion is , for the majority of them, a religion of violence and their beloved religion leaders ..auto elected and without , contrary to us, almost with any education..from which they do not attempt to be free..suggest if not force them to act as barbarians and treat their very children and women alike as slaves…sorry but the facts should tell you something..

that have no idea of how to behave in the civilised countries that host them,

But since we are infidels we don't count, it seems …

Some other good points as well again ITALWARS …

But it seems some here have tendencies to be utopian, moralistic and self-righteous. To quote something I saw on another thread here. I'm not smart enough to think to say something like that.

Italwars:

In hindsight I may have not made my post clear enough. My apologies if I was to obtuse. In Canada we interned Italians and Italian Canadians in prison camps during World War I and II. Have you looked at the refugee camps in parts of Europe and unfortunately in Australia? There is not much difference between what we did a hundred years ago and what we're doing now!

More learning and thought combined with less prejudice and judgement are what is needed these days. But in the twitter-verse little thought or judgement exists. It's all about knee-jerk reaction.

…and muslim supposed to be refugees, all of almost all males, almost all predators, allmost all enraged..that have no idea of how to behave in the civilised countries that host them..for the simple fact that their religion is , for the majority of them, a religion of violence and their beloved religion leaders ..auto elected and without , contrary to us, almost with any education..from which they do not attempt to be free..suggest if not force them to act as barbarians and treat their very children and women alike as slaves….

I teach Muslim children of Muslim families and have regular contact with the Muslim communities where I live. They are for the most part better behaved and better socialized than the Canadian students I teach whether they are Syrian refugees (like the young lady who was our school valedictorian last year) or well-to-do Muslims from anywhere else.

Rod Robertson.

"But since we are infidels we don't count, it seems"
probably you said that as a joke…but it's dramatically true..
i have, close to my house, a flower shop owner..(you know i have to spent a lot of money in flowers as , being an "Italian" you can imagine which is my favourite other hobby together with wargame )…this good guy is an Egyptian Copt..and, being of arab look and understanding of course the language , quite a few he is adressed by young muslim male immigrants unaware of his religion and cultural origin..one afternoon we spent a couple of hours speaking about the way those illegal immigrants ..sorry refugees, see us western people that spend our money and resources for them..he told me that , among us, they never say things like " see that girl" or "the old lady buying some flowers"..but the use, in 100% of cases, other words to define a woman …the better of which is "cow"…..and the rest of what i discovered of their unknown way of thinking and seeing us, thanks to this good Egyptian Christian gentleman, was only extreme violence, obsessive need of revanche and rage….

Italwars:

Well it might be time to change your flower vendor if he espouses such views publicly to you, … unless you agree with him. In that case continue your patronage and reinforce such bigotry. You always have a choice.

Rod Robertson.

"More learning and thought combined with less prejudice and judgement are what is needed these days. But in the twitter-verse little thought or judgement exists. It's all about knee-jerk reaction"
i understand that living in Canada the situation you see is far less critical or exasperated..including your history..but in very small village in the South of my country there is an "observation tower"..used from middle age until the Napoleonic Wars to alert the villagers of the imminent landing of marauding muslim pirates..in search of slaves, women but, above all, sexual teenage slaves…i also understand that you country is so lucky that there is still a Govrment that enforce the law on his citizens..and consequently also on people from abroad..which is not the case in my country..
but you can be sure that there are no prejudice at all..simple looking at the reality…i attended an international French non-catholic school in which every religion was represented and the majority of children from Arab Muslim countries belongued to élites…the approach Vs women was exactly the same as today masses of enraged immigrants, the rage for the west and the impossibility to integrate was also very present among those very lucky guys that were trained to become loafers..

"But since we are infidels we don't count, it seems"
probably you said that as a joke…but it's dramatically true..

A little of both … But yes, based on islamist propaganda, videos, etc. it seems many of them think it is true …

"I teach Muslim children of Muslim families and have regular contact with the Muslim communities where I live. They are for the most part better behaved and better socialized than the Canadian students I teach whether they are Syrian refugees (like the young lady who was our school valedictorian last year) or well-to-do Muslims from anywhere else."

I believe you R I R and thanks for this solid proof…but i cannot detain myself to ask you question…why , in that case, those children and certainly well educated parents ..continue to accept to be called "muslims"..and why they do not totally espouse your honest laical teaching together of that of this new country (Canada)with liberal traditions ..that is offering them a new way of life?

Italwars:

Italians have been building towers from the Sardinian/Sardine (?) Nuraghes of the Bronze Age to the modern times. The point is to stop building the fortifications of the mind and to look out from provincialism and tribalism in order to deal with the very real world which lies beyond Italy's borders.

If I had my way, Canada would be accepting many more of the refugees and economic migrants who come to your shores because such people often make better citizens than rich/skilled immigrants who are far more mercenary about their loyalties.Alas, Canadian prejudice coupled with powerful political pressure from south of the border, prevents us from doing more at this time, but we're working on it.

Rod Robertson.

Canada would be accepting many more of the refugees and economic migrants who come to your shores

I'm sure many in Italy feel the same. Sending them to Canada and all …

powerful political pressure from south of the border

That is the problem with borders … both on either side don't always agree.

Italwars:

…why , in that case, those children and certainly well educated parents ..continue to accept to be called "muslims"..and why they do not totally espouse your honest laical teaching together of that of this new country (Canada)with liberal traditions ..that is offering them a new way of life?

My students and their families are Muslims. They reject the violence and extremism of the radical Islamists and see their preferred version of Islam as a creed of peace and social responsibility. By putting them in the camp of the radicals you do them a disservice. They deplore the violence and the extremism, it is often the reason they left their homelands. Would you condemn all Christians and Jews for the the excesses of their radical fringes? I hope not. So why do this to Muslims. Its time to start dealing with Muslims with detente and respect and stop acting like modern=day versions of Tancred the Norman.

Rod Robertson.

Legion 4:

I think you may have missed my point. In the long term refugees and economic migrants make better new Canadians than privileged migrants. That is the important point to understand.

It was Canadians of all types of ethnicity who fought to liberate Italy and Western Europe in World War II. They all pitched in when some Canadians refused to to go. They deserve our respect, not scorn and bigotry.

Rod Robertson.

some of the thoughts of R I R must be understood….but, as a said before, is a menthality that is strongly influenced by historical and geographic conditions totally different from Europe…maybe i'm wrong but your stance is a typical pioneristic one..a frontier's man one…something that let me thinking at Us West, 1948 Israel Kibbutz, Pampa Argentina.. .which is , for us amateur historians, certainly fascinating..but unrealistic for the core of the problem..which is Europe and above all Southern Europe…there is non more place..no more resources..and some of us..many of us maybe, are, i suppose, also proud or our traditions of good old Carolingian Europe..

That is the important point to understand.

I do understand that but some may not care. Like some in Italy. Or elsewhere …

It was Canadians of all types of ethnicity who fought to liberate Italy and Western Europe in World War II.

Yes, the US was right there along with Canada and all the other allied nations.

They deserve our respect, not scorn and bigotry.

Real respect is earned … not just given. And yes, many in all nations have earned respect for serving that nation in time of crisis. My Grandparents came from Italy in the very late 1800s and very early 1900s. I know about how it works.

It's interesting to note that, in some way, the milieu influence the behaviour of people..in this case immigants..

Maybe your Grandparents were of Southern Italy origin..like me …(yes i'm of the kind of those knife carrying calabrian type :-))…as mentioned in the article posted by Rod)
but they worked hard, and became succesful and are remnbered for their morale integrity..but why..when i see Neapolitan , Calabrians ecc..in Germany , UK, Belgium they act as pefect gentlemen..while in my country they don't care a bit about law and pay respect only to Mafia/Camorra leaders and to their mediocre football teams (SSC Napoli)?
and why..in France and Italy muslim guys loose their time arrassing people in the streets or trowing stones at police..while in UK one of them became the mayor of London?
some thougts have to be made

Two of my mother's grand parents were from Southern Italy (not Calebrese but Basilicata I think) and Friuli although the Southern Italian one was actually born abroad in Spain as that branch of the family were wine merchants in Southern Spain and Egypt at the time of her birth. My Maternal Grandmother was fiercely Italian but married into an Irish/Scottish family to which she became the matriarch quickly. The rest of the family cowered in fear!

Rod Robertson.

Italwars ,
As I understand your postings -you are saying that Muslims shouldn't be allowed to be a Mayor ? and that they only are disruptive?
and in a previous post – Why would they give up their religion when they move to another country (Canada in this case )?

These are exactly the same things said of Italians when they fled the poverty of Italy (in the 19th and 20th centuries )to come to the US .

This is not new the Sudan has sucked for sometime now.

Maybe your Grandparents were of Southern Italy origin..like me …(yes i'm of the kind of those knife carrying calabrian type :-))…

Yep, Avelleno and Monto Bano … And in the past, my home town in the USA, Youngstown, OH was said, to be "mobbed up". I will neither confirm or deny that …

These are exactly the same things said of Italians when they fled the poverty of Italy (in the 19th and 20th centuries )to come to the US .

Yes, I'm pretty sure both ITALWARS and I are aware of that. But it seems all of my relations assimilated and became "Americans". Not just refugees … it appears … Religion and ethnicity should have little to do with it. But is appears many [not all] "refugees" don't assimilated and more importantly don't want to. Instead of trying to be respectful of their host countries' culture etc., …

Some [not all] believe as we see in Germany and other European nations that it is OK to assault the host countries females, etc., etc. Because the standards of the host countries' females are not like those of females of their moslem culture, etc. And they/we are not moslems and are "infidels" and can be treated as SOME of the moslems males see fit. Based on their culture and religion not the host countries'.

If invited into another's home and then assault the homeowner's daughter(s). That should not be too much of a surprise to anyone, moslem or otherwise. That this is unacceptable behavior. Unless you see that female as sub-human/ an infidel and it's OK to do as one wishes.

This is not new the Sudan has sucked for sometime now.

That seems to be the case in many locations in the region and even some others nearby …

so you're also praising fascism??!!..that's say a lot about your penchant for religious extremism

about your bizarre question..very simple answer..to integrate you must delete all the illegal, violent, non democratic issues belonging to your past behaviour…can you explain me please why a country like Saudia Arabia is admited in United Nations also if it does'nt at all fulfill the Human Rights chart?

So who won?