"GW massive profits announced" Topic

Well, GW is doing something right because they just announced a greater than 100% increase in operating (post-expenses) profits compared to this time last year.

link

£13,000,000.00 GBP million in profits for the last six months compared to £6,200,000.00 GBP million in profits for the six months of the same period last year – in constant currency terms, i.e. before the benefits of the weak pound are calculated.

The new CEO's drastic changes and removal of Alan Merritt as head if IP have really turned the company around.

I guess with the extra profits they could theoretically buy every other miniatures company in the world?

That's over double! But how could that be AoS is a miserable failure and 40k is flagging and heading towards the "end times"? I saw it in another thread so it must be so!

A very successful British company, that's good to see. That said, haven't they massively slashed operating costs in recent years? I don't actually shop at GW and probably haven't been in for ten years but they do seem to be operating unusual opening hours or skeleton staffing levels.

I hope the return to Specialist Games pays off.

new bloodbowl looks like a huge success and will only add to the growth of the company …..

@willlucv that was many many years ago – in fact GW has been opening new stores in the last year or two.

I also hope the new Specialist Games pays off. This is for the period ending Nov 27 2016 so would include sales from the new board games such as Warhammer Quest and Deathwatch Overkill, plus the immensely popular Genestealer Cult and 30k releases and the post-General's Handbook explosion in Age of Sigmar sales. It would not include the new Blood Bowl or the Space Hulk re-release. It also would not include the sales from the new LOTR/Hobbit books and kits.

GW has always had good stuff and there is apparently a market for what they have. Good for them.

It's buoyed by the high sales volumes of the 30K box sets as well as the Deathwatch Kill Team/Genestealer Cult board game. GW is finally giving players what they want so no surprise really.

The Horus Heresy is making them money hand over fist. Both the Betrayal are Calth and Battle of Prospero box sets are flying off shelves.

Add to that a new army in the Deathwatch and the return of the Genestealer cult army that lasted existed as a 4 page blurb in a Citadel Journal. Coupled with return of Plastic sisters rumored and a 3rd Horus heresy box set they stand to continue to make money.

Not into GW, but good for them!

Well … they are in business to make $$$$ … so looks like they are successful.

"30k"

Profit isn't as strong an indicator of corporate health as earnings before interest, taxes, depreciation, and amortization, or indeed the basic income statement, because short and long term charges can be structured in such a way as to inflate or deflate profits. I can't currently open the financials, but it would be interesting to see the year-over-year results.

No squats, no applause.

Don't underestimate how much money they made from mobile/computer/whatever licensing.

I will wait and see.

Robert piepenbrink:

Squats DID exist "in" 30k, so there is hope for you (and many others) yet.

I mean, Genestealer Cult was a SERIOUS niche force coming from like others say, 4 pages of material. There has always been more fan interest in squats, so, yea – hope still burns.

I picked up Blood Bowl on Small Biz Saturday. Prior to that, other than occasional spray primer, I've given GW maybe $20 USD in the last fifteen years.

So yeah, they're doing SOMETHING right.

Squats DID exist "in" 30k, so there is hope for you (and many others) yet.

We shall see.

Well after the Genestealer Cult and the announcement of Soroitas, Im very positive that we wil see Squats soon.

Good news for them, and a warning not to listen to all those prophets of doom with a B.A. in economics who already saw their fall in the next year!

I am quite pleased! It means more time to complete my collections and more cool stuff to add to them.

GW seems to have woken up to the needs of modern customers.

They are finally acknowledging that they do have a history and that there is money to be made from the people who used to buy GW and never quite purged it out of their system rather than pretend they exclusively sell games to 10-year olds until they either hit puberty or the next edition roll out.

They finally understood the usefulness to have a cheap way for people to invest in the game that feels relevant. People can now field a decent 1000-point army without having spent a fortune.

I'm not saying their pricing policy is not badly broken, but while some sets are priced on a level that instantly creates ulcers and makes even the toughest man cry, I find that some models, while not bargains, stand up pretty well compared to similar sets by the competition made in resin or metal.

I've been saying this for a year or more now. You can still buy GW stuff "a la carte" and it will be expensive but with the Start Collecting boxes and the starter games they have given fans way more value for their money over single piece buying.

The initial buy-in is pricey but not expensive per piece.

But like the Beat Rampant until last summer when Age of Sigmar came out I hadn't bought much in the way of GW stuff in the last 12 years or so.

I spent more than $20 USD but less than $300. USD

In the last year and half I've got 5 Horus Heresy boxed games (3 Calth and 2 Prospero) two sets of the starter AoS game and a whole bunch of other stuff besides.

They have really made their games much more playable and collectible and seem to have really changed direction in the last two years.

GW is finally doing something that gamers have been saying for them to do for years. Of course they are making money.

Nice to see them pull things around and I applaud their moves into board gaming territory.

Im very positive that we wil see Squats soon.

Yes and they are:

Forge Fathers

Mantic Games

Really?

I thought the consensus was they would face bankruptcy within a year after the release of Age of Sigmar?

I would guess that Total War: Warhammer licensing fees play a role here…

Actually sales of Age of Sigmar helped them over previous years of sales of Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Their pricing policy finally drove me away a few years back, but I'm really glad they are doing well. GW is still the gateway drug for so many folks that brings them into our hobby that it's success can only be a good thing.

Also, for the first time ever I'm anxiously awaiting a GW product, the upcoming release of Necromunda!

Actually sales of Age of Sigmar helped them over previous years of sales of Warhammer Fantasy Battle.

Well that is interesting since they have been showing losses every year since 2013.

2013 $134.6 USDM
2014 $125.9 USDM
2015 $119.1 USDM
2016 $118.2 USDM

Oh and it ended up being $118.2 USD this year due to license fees of around $6 USDM

So as I said I will wait and see just how they end up next year.

But they have put out a lot of stand alone games that were not really worth the price tags.

Oh and games that when put up for 30% off at a FLGS and still did not sell.

Your anecdotal evidence of a game store that is improperly run with a poor business model is not indicative of the success of a product line worldwide.

GW has done something right to double their operating profits despite what you wish every night as you drift to sleep, Mithmee.

I'm pretty sure Mithmee doesn't really understand how business works. He says GW has been "showing loses every year since 2013" but then goes on to point out revenue amounts for various years, all of which were profitable, by at least $10,000,000. USD

$10 USD million profit. And yet he says they have been showing losses. How many other companies in the industry could say that their worst year in the last 5 years resulted in only a $10 USD million profit?

He didn't read the financial report, he read some summary of it on some website and seemingly couldn't even read that properly.

I don't know if the local shop near him has a poor business model or if the players there are just tired of hearing Mithmee whinge at them if they buy GW stuff. IF it is the former that might explain why he doesn't really understand the financial stuff as it could be the only business education he has had.

Well that is interesting since they have been showing losses every year since 2013.

2013 $134.6 USD USDM
2014 $125.9 USD USDM
2015 $119.1 USD USDM
2016 $118.2 USD USDM

I do not think this means what you think it means. What you are showing is falling profits, not losses. I'll leave the dubiousness of your general post for others to debate.

You do know that their prices only went up during that time period and they still made less and less each year.

Which is why they are trying to go back to when they are great.

Oh and also why they release several stand alone games, high price and not that great of games but they still put them out and made FLGS buy more than they really needed.

the new blood in things like blood bowl, custodes & sisters, stealer cult and deathwatch is the reason

"Oh and also why they release several stand alone games, high price and not that great of games but they still put them out and made FLGS buy more than they really needed."

How much did they make the FLGS buy?

My one FLGS sold 30 of the BoP set in two weeks. I'd argue against them being "not that great of games" in light of that.

"You do know that their prices only went up during that time period and they still made less and less each year."

Are you arguing that means they lost money, that is then the loses you are talking about? 10 million profit is a loss because you made 11 million before that?

Pictor's,

I said they have been losing profit every year since 2013, which is the case since they had profit of $134.6 USD in 2013, and in 2016 their profit was only $118.2 USD.

As for the games, what I do know is that the two FLGS in my area still have quite a few of these games and they are not flying off the shelves.

One of the stores even had 4 of them on deep discount several weeks ago and they still did not sell.

I'd argue against them being "not that great of games" in light of that.

Well Board Game Geek states differently:

Overkill Ranked 4945

link

Assassinorum: Execution Force Ranked 3714

link

Lost Patrol Ranked 3933

link

Kill Team Not enough Information so not Ranked at all

link

The Horus Heresy: Betrayal at Calth Ranked 3620

link

The Horus Heresy: Burning of Prospero like Kill Team not Ranked yet

link

Gorechosen Ranked 5104

link

So all and all not that great of rankings and not one of these are better than.

Battlemasters Ranked 2574

link

No you didn't. Here is what you said:

"Well that is interesting since they have been showing losses every year since 2013."

So what do you call going from $134.6 USD in 2013 to $118.2 USD in 2016?

Hmm, I guess we need some real elementary business education here.

Revenues: income, especially when of a company or organization and of a substantial nature.

This would be the amount a business brings in.

Expenses: the cost required for something; the money spent on something.

This would be how much the business spent in the course of bringing in the revenue (see above.)

Profits: a financial gain, especially the difference between the amount earned and the amount spent in buying, operating, or producing something.

This is, roughly, the total revenue (see above) minus the expenses (see above.)

If it ends up being a negative number (that would be a number less than 0) then it is a loss.

"I said they have been losing profit every year since 2013, which is the case since they had profit of $134.6 USD USD in 2013, and in 2016 their profit was only $118.2 USD USD."

This is a quote from you. Almost everything said in this quote is factually incorrect.

First of all you said they have been losing profit. You didn't say that. You said that had "been showing losses every year since 2013."

Second you said that they made a profit of $134.6 USD in 2013. This is blatantly untrue.

Then you said that they made a profit of $118.2 USD in 2016. That is also an untruth.

They actually made a profit of about $13,000,000 USD in 2016.

So I'm not sure if you are just completely lost as far as the financial stuff goes or you are being deliberately deceitful but your story is not coming together very well.

Please read over the definitions I've given at the beginning of this post and then reassess what you are talking about.

Using BGG rankings for GW boxed games LOLWUT??? If we weren't past the point of good faith previously we sure are now.

Well, there are approximately 87,500 games on BGG. So Gorechosen at 5104 is in the upper 6 percentile of games.

So if one suspends all reason and assumes a BGG ranking is a good indicator of how good a game is, the GW boardgames listed above by Mithmee must be spectacularly great games!

Interestingly, Chain of Command, the darling of TMP, is rated lower than Assassinorum: Execution Force.

30K? Giving your customers what they've been wanting since 2006-ish was probably not going to end badly. Cost cuting won't hurt if they do it right! 'All these designers and artists we have, they're just, like, overhead, right?'

My entirely un-emperical reading of the internet's also suggests they're getting people who've been customers since 2006, if not before, to shell out and clearly to some tune. But what happens when they stop buying the shiney things – this being a group of people many of whom have probably dropped away from being regular customers because cruddy codex's and pointless new stuff? I wonder how many will even stay the course of the product cycle which I assume will culminate in an Imperial Palace siege / Emporer versus Horus winner takes all match set? GW have just mined, or in the process of mining, all their A-grade background and nostalgia material…

I personally have found I've spent more on new GW product in the last 12-15 months than I had in the previous five years or longer. Some of the highlights include:

an Age of Sigmar Nurgle army
three-pack of LOTR/Hobbit Lake-town
lots of LOTR/Hobbit models including the new releases (just ordered Gundabad Berserkers)
Gorechosen
Warhammer Quest (x2)
Deathwatch Overkill

I have also been very encouraged by the fact that GW now has a real community presence, with their game designers interacting with the community in a way that they have never done before. The designers now have meet & greet events with fans and seminars showing product in development, along with taking input from the players. I have chatted with Adam Troke (head of LOTR/Hobbit SBG development) online and James Hewitt (head of Blood Bowl and Gorechosen and other games) online on facebook. This had warmed my previously cold anti-GW heart and puts them in the same league as being able to chat with Rick Priestley on the Gates of Antares facebook page and Alessio Cavatore on the Bolt Action facebook page.

Ever since their new CEO took over and the in charge of their IP was replaced, GW's been slowly changing course after a solid decade of steering in a bad direction.

Whether it's 30k sales (sure), the growing Age of Sigmar community (now outselling Warhammer in the last years of it's life), the re-investment into LOTR/Hobbit SBG, the actual interest the company is now taking in the community, the new army deals that offer meaningful discounts, the box games, the new releases for cherished IP, or a combination of all of them, it's really only a good thing for everyone. There was once a time I wished for the demise of GW and it's IP's to be picked up by a competent company in a bankruptcy firesale, but now I find myself looking forward to the next releases.

Ever since their new CEO took over and the in charge of their IP was replaced, GW's been slowly changing course after a solid decade of steering in a bad direction.

Rountree is interesting, engaged at a time when GW's emplyment policy seemed centered on your ability to shout 'Waargh' correctly rather than ability, at the start of the 'rot', and is clearly career GW management, but does he carry a torch for what oftn gets called GW's golden age? The internet seems split between him being one of Kirby's e'bil minions or the new Messiah. Personally I'm waiting on the specialist games re-rollout… So far he seems to have given both players and investors a warm glow.

" GW have just mined, or in the process of mining, all their A-grade background and nostalgia material…"

But they have a ton of stuff they can do with this. Prospero and Calth are side shows to the main Heresy storyline and they sold like crazy.

There is the attack on Horus's battle barge, the attack on the Imperial Palace, the Alpha Legion's infiltration of the Ravenguard on Deliverence, the Civil War on Mars with plastic mechanicum troops for both side never mind a game based on either of the Istvaan battles or the entirety of the Shadow Crusade.

Those are all things they could do with 28mm stuff.

You've got quite a few space battles that you could do too. If they re-release BFG they could release a Phall set or something to go along with that.

Sure it isn't an infinite mine, but it is a pretty deep one.

I am also waiting for the specialist games "re-rollout". Necromunda and Epic could get a lot of my business if the have a full figure line planned. I heard Epic was just going to be titans and if well received they would consider adding infantry and vehicles. I won't buy into anything else GW does if I think they will let it die.

I am also waiting to see if 40k 8th edition is worth my time. If the rules go back to being more of a skirmish game instead of rewarding those that spend the most I would consider getting back into 40K. In the mean time I have been collecting miniatures for skirmishes using other rule systems. I have Overkill and several boxes of Genestealer Cultists. GW is finally listening to its customers!

But they have a ton of stuff they can do with this. Prospero and Calth are side shows to the main Heresy storyline and they sold like crazy.

But will people stay the entire product cycle? Even if I wasn't giving all my money to another gaming company at the moment I wouldn't be in for every box set. The current two would probably keep me going for a couple of years fiscally and in terms of painting time. The Heresy has got plenty of storyline, but it does have an end, and what after that?

I am also waiting for the specialist games "re-rollout". Necromunda and Epic could get a lot of my business if the have a full figure line planned. I heard Epic was just going to be titans and if well received they would consider adding infantry and vehicles. I won't buy into anything else GW does if I think they will let it die.

I'm waiting on Titanicus, but the projected prices are making me a little uneasy, I just want to drop a half-a-dozen titans on the table and spend the evening blowing the snot out of the other side, and if that costs signficantly more than £100.00 GBP thats difficult, signfiantly more than £200.00 GBP forget it. Hell if you're feeling that nostalgic I've seen original complete box sets for £100.00 GBP odd. As for Necromunda, if they are smart, they would release it as a skirmish game with a generic narrative campaign element, Rogue Trader II if you like, for hive gangs, inquistorial retinues, rogue traders, death watch teams, chaos champion retinues, etc, etc. People may not lay out for a whole army that often, but a gang or a small retinue is an easier proposition financially, and you can pretty much rely on gamers scope drift, to turn core rules, source book and a dozen figures into all the source books and a force for each over subsequent months…

The Heresy has an end, at the siege of Terra. But that isn't the end of the story. There is the pursuit of the Traitors to the Eye of Terror, there are the Horus Clones and the war the Black Legion launches to destroy them.

People have been buying this stuff since 2012 right now and for three of those years you could only get the stuff from Forge World.

The models have other uses than 30K too. Any one of those Astartes models would make an excellent veteran in a current army or with some mods would make excellent Chaos space marines.

@ROUwetpatchbehindthesofa

I love your ideas for Necromunda.

Wonder if we will actually get a detailed breakdown of sources of revenue or if they will just lump in the Total War revenue with AoS to prop up their numbers.