olicana | 06 Dec 2016 5:39 a.m. PST |
I'm a big fan of ancient naval war gaming and I always have been. It was one of my early first loves (my earliest fleets were made with matchsticks, a bit of modelling clay, and a bit of thin card, in about 1:1000ish scale) and I've had a fascination since. Being a bit in the know, my question, I guess, falls into two basic catagories. Firstly, games on an ungridded table and secondly games on a gridded table. Grid could be square or hex. Thereafter, we could sort rules into best for squadron and best for fleet. By that I mean actions with up to, say, 12 ships a player and actions with more than 12, possisbly up to 50 ships a player. What are you favourite rules, for squadron or fleet, board game or otherwise, for recreating ancient naval battles in miniature? |
Who asked this joker | 06 Dec 2016 5:56 a.m. PST |
Don't own or play anything. If I did, it would be something very simple that had little in the way of fine details or damage tracking. I'd want it to be able to handle about a dozen ships per player and be good for club games. Some simple rules for boarding actions is a must! Perhaps with a few small figures per ship representing marines and so forth. |
Big Red | 06 Dec 2016 6:08 a.m. PST |
You might also consider sorting by scale: 1/100, 1/300, 1/600, 1/900, 1/1200, etc. Scale can have a great deal to do with rule granularity. Larger scale, fewer ships more detail. Smaller scale, more ships less individual detail but possibly more command and control/squadron tactics. Your own 1/600 scale ships and games are visual treat. |
Dan 055 | 06 Dec 2016 6:35 a.m. PST |
The only rules I've played is an old little micro game called Ramspeed. I liked it. |
x42brown | 06 Dec 2016 7:13 a.m. PST |
Trireme link is the set rules I favour. The original set was completely intended for play with miniatures. The later sets although sold as games their advanced rules are still the same rules. The later rules say that it is a two player game but it plays well with multiple players per side. If you can get hold of the rules I think you will be pleased with them. x42 |
miniMo | 06 Dec 2016 7:20 a.m. PST |
Old Ramspeed fan as well. But these days I really like Roman Seas: romanseas.com I've scaled the paper models to half-size for use on 3" hex grids. (Note at half-size they come out much larger than 1/600 metal minis) |
Who asked this joker | 06 Dec 2016 7:23 a.m. PST |
The only rules I've played is an old little micro game called Ramspeed. I liked it. A brilliant game! Especially for lower ship count. |
elsyrsyn | 06 Dec 2016 7:51 a.m. PST |
Ramspeed for quick and simple. Trireme for more complex and capable. Doug |
David Manley | 06 Dec 2016 10:05 a.m. PST |
Rod Langton's "Naumachiae" is rather good. Of course I prefer my own "Salamis ad Actium". For quick games I have a couple of fast play sets, one aimed at actions involving small numbers of ships (1 model = 1 ship), another for fleet actions (1 model = 5 to 10 ships) |
Bashytubits | 06 Dec 2016 10:38 a.m. PST |
Ramspeed and Trireme are both excellent. Many years ago we actually fought the battle of Salamis with it. My friend is an engineer and had access to a large plotter so we had a 12 foot by 6 foot map grid printed out. It was glorious and the Persians lost horribly just like in the real deal, the way the narrows channeled their fleets spelled their doom. |
McKinstry | 06 Dec 2016 5:58 p.m. PST |
I've been playing and enjoying Ospreys' Poseidon's Warriors using Tumbling Dice 1/2400 ships. I've painted 100 Trremes and 40 wrecks, enough to play Salamis without huge expenditures of painting time or cash. Very much a fleet rules set, fast, deadly and fun. |
Happy Wanderer | 06 Dec 2016 10:52 p.m. PST |
James, What of your own Fleet of Battle rules? They seem very good. We played Poseidon's Warriors last week and rather enjoyed them. We are going to use a random draw activation system to jazz up the igo-ugo activation sequence and make the range about +50% for the 1/600 models. Maybe to highlight better fleet abilities we'll add in +33% dice to Veteran fleets such as the Athenians, etc. Was a lot of fun though! |
olicana | 07 Dec 2016 8:49 a.m. PST |
What of your own Fleet of Battle rules? They seem very good. They work just fine but, I'm looking to spice things up and simplify things with a hex grid. Consequently, I'm asking about other sets of rules to see if there are any I don't know about or that i've forgotten about. |
Happy Wanderer | 07 Dec 2016 11:12 p.m. PST |
I see. I noticed your experiment with GMTs War Galley – shame that didn't work out. I guess you could always strip down FoB if you feel they are to 'detailed' for large fleet actions. The key to the game IMHO are the rules pertaining to command and control and crew quality. If those elements were kept and the ship damage detail was streamlined then you might have a quick play set that uses the same engine that you have already developed. Just a thought. Cheers HW |
olicana | 08 Dec 2016 5:53 a.m. PST |
Hi HW, thanks for tip about Osprey's Poseidon's Warriors. I wasn't aware of that title. I've just blagged a free copy from Osprey (it's in the post) for past favours – gotta love a freebie! – so you're bound to see a report of a battle using them soon. I'm also looking at doing 'War Galley' Lite, perhaps with a slightly randomised, but simpler, command activation. I liked the 'success / failure' roll for ramming and raking combat very much – it doesn't often come cleaner than that. Cheers James |
Happy Wanderer | 09 Dec 2016 5:27 a.m. PST |
Nice work James, Have you thought on incorporating the elements you like from War Galley and maybe beefing up some aspect in an updated Fleet of Battle? (Edit – just read you're thinking of hexifing FoB – if you do can you incorporate your War Galley inspired updated rules first for those that don't use hexes please) I am keen to try FoB and we have just started getting some fleets together. We had a game last week with PW which we all rather liked. That said, I like the ethos of FoB and have long though that it might be the best ancients naval gaming going…"Manoeuvre followed by ramming or boarding." …that to me is what an ancient naval game should deliver. Our game of PW was a little more ramming and boarding…not enough Manoeuvre for me given this is major feature of advantage for Athenian and Carthaginian forces. Your thoughts welcome on FoB….maybe 'updated'. On the subject of FoB. What size table do you think the game plays best on for fleets of 25-30 1/600 scale ships or so? 9'x5'? The extra manoeuvre ability in FoB would hint at a more expansive table size. I was going to work on squadrons of 5 ships….5-6 of them. Will that work OK in FoB? Lastly, do you use any specific model to reflect Aphract ships in 1:600 scale? Cheers HW |
Happy Wanderer | 09 Dec 2016 3:47 p.m. PST |
Nice work James, Have you thought on incorporating the elements you like from War Galley and maybe beefing up some aspect in an updated Fleet of Battle? I am keen to try FoB and we have just started getting some fleets together. We had a game last week with PW which we all rather liked. That said, I like the ethos of FoB and have long though that it might be the best ancients naval gaming going…"Manoeuvre followed by ramming or boarding." …that to me is what an ancient naval game should deliver. Our game of PW was a little more ramming and boarding…not enough Manoeuvre for me given this is major feature of advantage for Athenian and Carthaginian forces. Your thoughts welcome on FoB….maybe 'updated'. Cheers HW |
olicana | 10 Dec 2016 8:20 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the kind words about Fleet of Battle (still available from the Wargames Illustrated site as a free download. The article includes ship templates for those without models who just want something to play with on the cheap.) PDF link I will let everyone have what I have, once done, on demand. I'll post on my blog when I come up with something worth having. Squadrons of 5 – 6 are just dandy, and 20 – 30 ships is about the most one person can handle alone. A nine by five should do just fine. There tends to be 'clumping' in ancient naval games anyway. The biggest game we have played, on a 12 x 6, had 80+ ships. |
Dexter Ward | 12 Dec 2016 7:16 a.m. PST |
Corvus (which I think can be downloaded for free) is a pretty good set for fleet actions. It's slightly more complex than Poseidon's Warriors, although not that much, but has a bit more crunchiness without getting bogged down in too much detail. If you want detail, Naumachiae is good, but you can't use too many ships. |