Tango01 | 05 Dec 2016 3:31 p.m. PST |
…for Mosul. "An SAS sniper's 100th hit killed the Islamic State chief during the battle for Mosul, it has been revealed. The sniper, a veteran of Iraq and Afghanistan, took out the 'highly valued target' as Iraqi special forces and teams of SAS troops probed the outskirts of the city. According to Patrick Williams for the Daily Star Sunday, the terrorist was killed with a single bullet through his body armour…"
Main page link Amicalement Armand |
JMcCarroll | 05 Dec 2016 4:29 p.m. PST |
I know I shouldn't, but I smiled. |
Legion 4 | 05 Dec 2016 4:34 p.m. PST |
Good shooting soldier … |
nsolomon99 | 05 Dec 2016 6:05 p.m. PST |
Its most un-Christian of me I know, and at Christmas time, but I cheered out loud. Another blow for freedom and democracy … however indirect. |
PMC317 | 06 Dec 2016 4:02 a.m. PST |
But it is the Daily Fail, so it's veracity is perhaps suspect. At any rate, no tears shed for that particular recipient of a piece of hot lead…! |
Legion 4 | 06 Dec 2016 8:31 a.m. PST |
I'm sure the islamists that kill our troops … have no regrets. So again good shooting SAS ! Repeat often ! |
piper909 | 06 Dec 2016 10:40 a.m. PST |
No, I can't relate to snipers. Too much hypocrisy and blood-lust manifest in the subject. Too much glorification of those on "our" side yet hatred and condemnation for those on the "other" side. It just seems too programmed and murder-for-hire for my moral base. I have a hard time believing anyone who'd be a professional sniper isn't damaged psychically. |
Zoltar | 06 Dec 2016 10:53 a.m. PST |
You are supposed to root for your side. I often wonder what, after AQ and others were pushed back into the caves in Afghanistan and losing on all fronts, thought. Did they watch our protests on TV? Did they watch as our programs and politicians did not want to even mention what they were by name so as to not offend anyone? Did they sit in those caves as the bombs got closer and wonder "how are we not beating these people???" I do know that they are not bothered by such concerns (from their actions) and freely vilify and condemn us as they are not burdened by such thoughts. I do chose to root for our side. I do condemn and root against those who stand against us. I am glad there are men like this doing what most of us cannot or do not want to leave our families and cushy lives to do and I thank them for it and do not passively aggressively disparage them for what they do. |
Legion 4 | 06 Dec 2016 2:50 p.m. PST |
piper909 No, I can't relate to snipers. Too much hypocrisy and blood-lust manifest in the subject. Too much glorification of those on "our" side yet hatred and condemnation for those on the "other" side. It just seems too programmed and murder-for-hire for my moral base. I have a hard time believing anyone who'd be a professional sniper isn't damaged psychically.
You wouldn't say that if you were a soldier on a battlefield. Snipers are a very effective asset in combat. I've sent many of my troops to the Benning Sniper School. It makes them better Infantry soldiers, etc.
Too much hypocrisy and blood-lust manifest in the subject. Too much glorification of those on "our" side yet hatred and condemnation for those on the "other" side. You are serious … right ? This is a function of combat, killing the enemy. Whether by Sniper or CAS, etc. It just seems too programmed and murder-for-hire for my moral base. So all soldiers are murders-for-hire, based on your comments ? All Infantrymen are trained [or as you say "programed" …] to kill the enemy, again using many tactics and techniques, etc., … As long as those methods are legal and lawful according to the GCs, Laws of Warfare, etc., … That is happens in conflicts. Based on your post, one of a very effective tactic Infantrymen use … The L-Shaped Ambush … would be murder too ? I don't think you've ever been a soldier, let alone in the Infantry, have you ? If you don't know what an L-Shaped Ambush is … you can google it. I have a hard time believing anyone who'd be a professional sniper isn't damaged psychically. I have a hard time believing anyone who is a wargamer would say any of the things you just have posted. I mean if you think it is more "sporting" for everyone to wear bright colors like in the era of Napoleon. But that has been proven a century ago or more. Not to be a useful concept for combat. As far as damaged psychically … some are … but many are not. Regardless … They knew they were doing their duty and saved their comrades lives, etc., … I do chose to root for our side. I do condemn and root against those who stand against us. I am glad there are men like this doing what most of us cannot or do not want to leave our families and cushy lives to do and I thank them for it and do not passively aggressively disparage them for what they do.
I'm sure many Vets here thank you for that Zoltar … |
Los456 | 07 Dec 2016 6:23 a.m. PST |
Well said with Zoltar and Legion…. |
Bangorstu | 07 Dec 2016 11:48 a.m. PST |
I would doubt the veracity of the report, simply because the British Army doesn't release kill totals for its snipers to prevent media attention like this… But if true… good skills. |
Bangorstu | 07 Dec 2016 11:52 a.m. PST |
Legion – there is evidence soldiers regard enemy snipers as being particularly evil because of the individual nature of their craft – they specifically choose targets whereas most squaddies (as I understand it) don't. Which is why they tend not to be taken prisoner… As for psych damage – I'd hope these days the Army takes that into consideration. All I know is that they're useful and – in Chain of Command – occasionally a thing of beauty… |
Wolfhag | 07 Dec 2016 12:06 p.m. PST |
Avoid fair fights. I'm a VN era grunt and I'm with Legion. L-Shaped ambushes are the best. They are so effective that they are not used in war game scenarios because reality sucks. Who wants to take 80-100% causalities on the first game turn? Snipers are a force multiplier and give a real morale boost to units that know they have a sniper team in over watch. I went through some of the scout sniper and recon training, shooting is only a small part of the job. It's mostly stealth and observation (snoop & poop). Counter-sniper operations are one of their main functions and the most dangerous. Wolfhag |
Legion 4 | 07 Dec 2016 3:13 p.m. PST |
there is evidence soldiers regard enemy snipers as being particularly evil because of the individual nature of their craft Sometimes yes … they specifically choose targets whereas most squaddies (as I understand it) don't. Standard Grunts normally don't aim at specific targets when laying down suppressive/covering fire. They fire in a general direction of the enemy. But if the "squaddie" is not targeting specific "targets". That could happen in the heat of a firefight. But they have to be trained to target specific enemy troops as they appear. We were trained to shoot at human sized & shaped targets. On ranges were they pop-up at various ranges out to 300m. And at different times. The Soldier is trained to ID, engage and kill a human in a very short amount of time. And then repeat it … The military isn't in the business of making "marksmen" per say. But troops that can quickly and efficiently engage enemy personnel. Which is why they tend not to be taken prisoner…
That is why many Snipers don't get captured … As for psych damage – I'd hope these days the Army takes that into consideration. Today the military is very much better trained and equipped to take care of this type of situation. But still some Vets, too many, still take their own lives … sadly. All I know is that they're useful and – in Chain of Command – occasionally a thing of beauty…
Don't play CoC, but based on training and historical evidence, etc., … Snipers are very good at their craft. And in turn save their comrades lives. Along with taking many of the enemies' … L-Shaped ambushes are the best. They are so effective that they are not used in war game scenarios because reality sucks. Who wants to take 80-100% causalities on the first game turn? Best played as a solitaire game … |
Andy P | 08 Dec 2016 4:58 a.m. PST |
We have used a stop group and a cut off group so more H shaped! |
Legion 4 | 08 Dec 2016 8:49 a.m. PST |
You always have to be careful of Friendly Fire. But sometimes you always can't use the L-Shape, etc., … And using initiative, thinking out of the box, etc., is usually a good method. |
Bangorstu | 09 Dec 2016 9:09 a.m. PST |
Legion – I admit I was thinking in a WW2 context where studies proved most soldiers never really did much fighting at all. Yesterday I came across this superb bit of analysis YouTube link which rather proves your point… modern infantry are trained to be a lot more effective. Well worth a look BTW. |
Legion 4 | 09 Dec 2016 9:50 a.m. PST |
Yes, having read a book by LTC Grossman[IIRC], "On Killing". He very much made the case about training soldiers to be "man killers" not marksmen. You're either the hunter or the hunted, etc. We were trained to be the predator on the battlefield. "Victors … not victims …" And yes, the LTC made observations that in WWII, even in pitched battles, units fighting for their lives. Only about 15% ever fired their weapon(!). Then after training soldiers to shot at humans, not roundels, etc., … In SE Asia, that rate was about 95-98%. "On Killing" is worth reading. Especially for you Piper, might find some good information. Reality vs. toy soldiers … |