"Using 25mm (1:72) would it work" Topic

Thinking if trying my hand at Bolt Action. I have the v2 Rule Book and a couple of Army books.

I'd like to keep the price down, the 28mm figures aren't too bad the but the vehicles are pretty expensive.

By comparison just dropping down to 1:72 which I beleive is 25mm reduces the price considerably.

But would the rules work with 25mm or would changes need to be made.

Likewise 20mm, but that seems less common and as expensive, if not more, than 25mm.

Likewise 15mm, but I wonder if this is getting too small for the 'small army' nature of Bolt Action.

And of course it is not just the price of the miniatures but of scenery.

Cheers,

Nigel

I don't think you would have to change a thing. Just make sure that both sides are 1/72 and you should be good to go.

1/72 is often equated to 20mm but confusingly many 1/72nd kits were actually 1/76.

Proper 25mm are distinctly larger than 1/72 or 1/76.

Only played Bolt Action once, but I would have thought its pretty "scale neutral" at least in the 20/25mm 1/72 zone. Most WW2 games have drastically reduced ground scale as compared to the scale of the figures and, IMHO, games look a lot better using smaller scale figures. I play Battlegroup quite a lot and far prefer it when we use our 1/144 figures than when playing with the 20mm/1/72 stuff. Incidentally, most 1/72 scale figutes seem to have an overall height of about 23 or 24 mm. They are also less "chunky" than most 25mm figures so look distinctly puny next to them.

25mm is 1:64 more or less

Only in some cases are the 1/72nd/20mm kits 1/76th, adding in even more confusion.

Nope, you are messing with the structural integrity of the universe if you do that, so I don't recommend it.

I'd say 1/72nd – 1/76th is closer to 20mm than 25mm.

I've used Bolt Action for 20mm games and it works well. Problem is I just have too many figures and vehicles to use dice so will have to come up with another activation system.

If you take the dice activation out, is what's left actually Bolt Action? I would have thought the dice are pretty much the whole USP of those rules.

I've played it with both my 20mm and 15mm figures with ranges etc as it. Played just fine.

I used blank dice and stickers for each of the 6 faces. Saves a whole lot of $$$ over buying the BA dice. Available in blue, green, red and white
Do a search on amazon.com for blank dice.

I've always thought of scales based on a 6 foot (1829mm) person, so that

1:32 – 57mm
1:35 – 52mm
1:48 – 38mm
1:56 – 33mm
1:60 – 30mm
1:72 – 25mm
1:76 – 24mm
1:100 – 18mm
1:144 – 13mm

That's why I equate 1:72 to 25mm

I appreciate that there is lots of variation. The average height of a person is probably less than 6 foot.

Then there are bases and headgear to contend with.

And then there is variation in companies sculpting preference, I know you can line up the same '15mm' figures from different companies and the the sizes will vary markedly.

And finally, some sculpts have a very bulky appearance making them look much bigger than a skinny sculpt even if the height is the same.

Cheers,

Nigel

Sole of the foot to level of the eyes …

This was adopted because the eyes are generally visible, the top of the head often isn't.

Phil

25mm vs. 1/72 to the side for a moment, 1/72 should be just fine. Here's a nice place to compare 1/72 plastic troops:

link

John Secker.

A group at a local club use playing cards for activation, everything else remains the same as per the rules, but you have to remember what unit has moved etc.

Miniatures are generally listed in sizes, not scales. 25mm is a size, not a scale. Models are generally listed in scales, i.e. 1/72nd, 1/48t, 1/35th etc.

Now in the modelling world, with a few exceptions you can take the actual dimensions of a tank and divide them by 72 and get the size in 1/72nd scale. For example you can do this with the Dragon Shermans (I've done it) and the dimensions are spot on. Try doing that with 25mm figures however and the results are all over the place, in part because rather that measuring by heights, width and length miniature sculptors have their own methods. Some figures are 25mm from feet to top of the head, others from the base to the eyes, others, well you can see.

If you want to go with 1/72nd (and BTW, while some model lines, such as Revell reboxes of old Matchbox kits are 1/76th scale they plainly say that on the box)I would use 172nd scale figures, not 25mm. Interestingly enough many 20mm figures are a lot closer to 1/72nd then 25mm (although if you are going by the math 25mm should be correct). I will say that while 20mm is close it is far from perfect. I had some Dagon Shermans (again I have measured them and based on the measurements of actual vehicles they are spot on) and some MMS 20mm Shermans and the Dragon kits were noticeably bigger. I had some SHQ 20mm figures and they were dwarfed by my 1/72nd scale stuff.

My advice is that you probably want to convert to 1/72nd then go all in, 1/72nd scale vehicles, 1/72nd scale infantry, the lot.

Never considered playing it with anything else (except maybe 54mm)

Works fine in 15mm with the standard distances so 20mm should be ok.

Bolt Action rules use inches. If I were to go with 1:72 I could see that I could keep the distances as per the rule book.

I have also seen (with Hail Caesar) that if you use 10mm then you can change inches for centimetres and it pretty much works.

But what if I were to go with 15mm. Should I stick with inches as per the book, use centimetres or use half inches.

Cheers,

Nigel

See no problems for 1/72 or 20mm….. would be cheaper for miniatures, specially vehicles, which are in themselves, greater variety and availability at this moment compared to 25 or 28mm,

I play both BA in 28mm since "mis gaming amigos" have the proper BA collections. But my 1/72 (20mm) collection of vehicles easily can be used being single based…. just need a few foot miniatures for the infantry arm on the tabletop.

Side note: I use 20mm (1/72) for Flames of War which normally uses 15mm and posted on Wargamerabbit blog (google if interested0. Minor basing attentions, otherwise the same rules.

The 25mm figures from Battle Honours might not look too big next to 1/72 vehicles. Alternatively, just use 1/72 scale infantry. If you prefer larger 1/72 go with Valiant: link

I am a long time "true" 1/76th gamer and Bolt Action works very well with no alteration needed. I also use it for FOW based 15mm and just stick post-it notes (an endless supply liberated from work) on the bases with a bit showing on which I mark casualties and pins. Works fine. Strangely I've never played FOW…
If starting out now in this golden age of everything available in every scale I would go with 1/72nd as you have a great balance of value for money (PSC, Armourfast, Caesar plastics etc) with variety and also it's large enough to satisfy a craving for detail if you get more into the modelling side of the hobby. When I'm finally done with adding to my 43-45 1/76th collection and 15mm Western Desert and Med collection I'll most probably start any new theatres in 1/72nd.

We've used it plenty for 20mm and also for 54mm, but usually with no range modifiers for the latter other than panzerfausts and PIATS at 18 or 24 inches depending on table size, however we do use very dense terrain so there's seldom a target within 36 inches anyway.

1/72 now equates with 20mm – its more of a convention than a strict scale. A good way to go excellent detail and inexpensive troops & tanks.

PSC makes a nice line of vehicles in 1/72 – generally you can get a box of 3 for the same price as 1 vehicle in "Bolt Action" scale.

Ranges are pretty short in Bolt already so you don't need to adjust scale for a skirmish game.

TomT