" Ferdinand History" Topic
6 Posts
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Tango01 | 28 Nov 2016 1:02 p.m. PST |
"On April 20th, 1942, Hitler was shown experimental heavy tanks developed by Henschel and Porsche. They impressed the fuhrer, and he gave the order to mass produce both. However, a series of reasons forced the choice of Henschel's model exclusively. At the same time, the need for a self propelled mount for the Rheinmetall 88 mm PaK 43 arose. The project required 200 mm of front armour, and limited the mass at 65 tons. Unused Porsche chassis served as a basis for the SPG. Work started in September of 1942. The project was developed by Porsche and Alkett. Due to the long gun, Porsche selected a rear casemate placement, and engine placed in the middle. There is an opinion that the chassis was reversed. That opinion is false: both the tank and the SPG "looked" in the same direction. This can be seen by looking at the drive wheel: in both vehicles, it is in the rear. In February of 1943, Hitler personally named this vehicle "Ferdinand", in honour of its creator. On February 16th, 1943, Nibelungenwerke started producing Porsche's creation. The casemate of the SPG consisted of a truncated four-faced pyramid. It was made with cemented naval armour. The front armour of the hull, initially 100 mm thick, was reinforced with another plate, which was held on with rivets. The side and rear armour was thinner: only 80 mm. The rear of the casemate had a round hatch for removing the gun, loading ammunition, and emergency crew evacuation…" More here link Amicalement Armand |
Tango01 | 28 Nov 2016 1:04 p.m. PST |
Ferdinand in Combat "The Ferdinand may have surprised the Red Army at Kursk, but the weakness of the design meant that one of the biggest dangers to the Ferdinand was the SPG itself. CAMD RF 500-12462-39 contains a translated captured document requesting more of them due to the rate that they were breaking down. "The condition of the 656th anti-tank regiment, if the unit is to remain intact for even months, requires immediate withdrawal. As a result of reinforcements and repairs in the rear or at the Governor-Generalty, combat readiness can be restored in approximately 8 weeks. After 2000 km, the condition of the Ferdinands is so poor that last week, four Ferdinands caught fire during a march, and were completely lost. Repairs are long and difficult, and therefore it is impossible to maintain the SPGs, neither with the regiment's resources, nor the resources of the army group. The successes of this time (for example, 8 Ferdinands knocked out 54 tanks on November 25th) demand immediate withdrawal of the regiment for reinforcements. After 8 weeks, the army group will once again have a unit that is a decisive combat force." 54 tanks, eh? That's quite a feat! Let's see what the regimental diary says about this…" More here link Amicalement Armand |
HidaSeku | 29 Nov 2016 1:30 p.m. PST |
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Mark 1 | 29 Nov 2016 2:06 p.m. PST |
54 tanks, eh? That's quite a feat! Let's see what the regimental diary says about this… A more thorough reading of the information provided by the poster, described in the comments to that posting, pretty much debunked the original poster's conclusion that the German report was false. The original posting asserted that the only unit the 656th Heavy PanzerJager Battalion could have engaged on the dates in question was the 31st Tank Brigade, a formation that only had 13 operational tanks on the dates in question, and in the unit diary still had 7 remaining operational tanks after the action of the dates in question. So it was not possible that the 656th destroyed 54 tanks, nor that one particular Ferdinand destroyed 21 of those 54. But the 31st Tank Brigade was part of the 28th Tank Corps, which was part of the 5th Guards Tank Army. According to the Russian theater map provided, the units of the 5th Guards Tank Army were about 100km away from the 656th on the dates in question. The unit that the 656th engaged seems to have been the 5th Tank Regiment of the 8th Guards Army. From the comments:
21 tanks destroyed by Kretschmer who would be around Myropil' matches with where the 5th Separate Tank regiment part of 8th Guards Army would be. … The "Nikopol bridgehead" is in the eastern side of the Dnieper river(it a german bridgehead in soviet held side) the report is very clear that the unit moved from Petropol to Nikopol crossed the river and helped the defense here from 13th november. So 5th Guards tank army and 656th anti-tank regiment are separated from ~100 km in 25th November.
That doesn't mean that the German report of 54 tanks destroyed is valid. It just means that the original poster did not provide useful evidence to support his conclusion that the report was false. Anyone know if/where information from the 8th Guards Army or 5th Independent Tank Regiment might be found? (And by "found", I mean accessible via internet.) -Mark (aka: Mk 1) |
HidaSeku | 29 Nov 2016 3:09 p.m. PST |
I find the comments to the author to be a good "counter-argument" section to his conclusions. Nice to read both and then do some additional research to come to my own conclusions. In this case, I hope someone has additional insight into the whereabouts and tank losses for 8th Guards Army! |
Tango01 | 29 Nov 2016 10:11 p.m. PST |
Glad you enjoyed it boys!. (smile) Amicalement Armand
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