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"Mexican Revolution 1910-20, Any rules out there?" Topic


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D6 Junkie22 Nov 2016 2:50 p.m. PST

Hey Guys,
Very tempted by this conflict, are there any period specific rules or scenarios written for the conflict?
I'm considering doing it in 28mm, starting with old glory and then brigade miniatures.

Frederick Supporting Member of TMP22 Nov 2016 3:56 p.m. PST

We use the Contemptible Little Armies rules for Mexican Revolution – not specifically designed for Mexico but they play very nicely

Henry Martini22 Nov 2016 4:08 p.m. PST

'Achtung Gringo', from Crush the Kaiser; an adaptation of that company's WW1 rules. It's apparently a similar design to Rapid Fire. It also includes an alternative history German-Mexican alliance against the US.

Personally I favour Chris Peers' WW1 era rules, 'Contemptible Little Armies'; very simple and stylised and unashamedly toy soldiery. I posted my own Mexican Revolution mods for CLA on TMP some time ago.

I've recently been 'toying' with the idea of adapting Osprey's new colonial rules by Dan Mersey, 'The Men Who Would Be King' – if only because it's a touch more mechanically sophisticated and clean.

Over the years there's been a good deal of discussion on these boards amongst MR enthusiasts about rules and literary sources. Just search under Mexican Revolution.

You might not be aware that there's quite a lot of stuff available in 20mm now, particularly from two companies: Early War Miniatures and Shellhole Scenics. The main reason for considering this size is that the latter company makes the only MR Yaquis in production; they were a vital component of the Constitutionalist North West Army under Obregon.

Buena suerte.

D6 Junkie22 Nov 2016 4:42 p.m. PST

Many Thanks!
Was going with 28mm since I had already
built terrain for Maximilian in Mexico,
but will give 20mm a good look.

rxpjks122 Nov 2016 6:10 p.m. PST

Any rules for large battles? Not skirmish type games. Say a 1000 figures per side.

Buckeye AKA Darryl22 Nov 2016 6:47 p.m. PST

Does anyone do ranges in 15/18mm? My terrain is geared for that scale.

Umpapa23 Nov 2016 12:07 p.m. PST

I plan on doing 20 mm Mexican revolution/Cristiada. Italieri will produce Zapatistas revolutionaries, as it promised on FB. HaT Early WW1 British are good for Federales.

Apart from excellent figures of Shell Scenic and Early War Miniatures, there is also nice range of Newline Designs.

link

John Leahy Sponsoring Member of TMP23 Nov 2016 2:09 p.m. PST

I didn't see anything at Newline.

mghFond23 Nov 2016 3:36 p.m. PST

Ive done Mexican Revolution for quite some time with 28mm using Old Glory's range, it's quite extensive though it does lack the Yaquis as fellow enthusiast Henry pointed out.
I have used Contemptible Little Armies, very bloody though. Least the games are quick.
I bought Achtung Gringo but never played it, turned off by all the many modifiers one needs to go thru with firing etc.
In the end though I have my own homemade set of rules that work for our local group. It's geared toward battles not small skirmishes.
I have no knowledge of The Men Who Would Be King, though we do like that rule author's set Lion Rampant rules for medievals.

Henry Martini23 Nov 2016 7:31 p.m. PST

rxpjks1 – It's not the number of figures that determines the level at which a set of rules is pitched; it's the author's design goals, and CLA is flexible in this regard.

Chris Peers claims in his introduction that it's up to you to decide what your units represent: anything from a platoon to a brigade. Some people will hate this approach, and others will value it; I'm in the latter camp. In the 1913 – 1914 Mex Rev campaigns that primarily interest me the battles progressively upsized from battalion, to brigade, to division to corps size. If you want to avoid having to use four different rule sets to represent every level with precise accuracy, and having to amass a collection that can cover them all, it greatly simplifies things; and for me this period is one of third-rate, untrained or poorly trained, improvised, rag-tag armies, and is more about gigantic egos struggling for total dominance against a colourful cultural and geographic background than sophisticated armies with the latest technology engaged in 'scientific' warfare – so I feel comfortable taking a relaxed approach to its tabletop representation.

If you want a more formal large battle rule set you'll have to adapt something designed for WW1, such as Great War Spearhead, or better still, rules for an analogous conflict such as the RCW – so, for instance, Red Actions. If you don't mind playing on a gridded table there's Square Bashing from Peter Pig for divisional level battles with units representing battalions. The 2nd edition army lists book even includes Mex Rev lists, although I don't recall being overly impressed with their historical accuracy.

Just while we're on the subject, when I posted my CLA mods I missed a couple of points:

1. No army can have staff officers except Federales, any army in 1915, and Carranzistas thereafter, which are allowed one.

2. Given his historical tactics I considered denying any army commanded by Pancho Villa the use of the reserves rule, but because his troops will either be irregular or poorly trained there's only a low chance of them turning up if they are held in reserve, so resort to it is effectively discouraged anyway.

If this rules mechanism is at all realistic it offers a logical explanation for Villa's oft-criticised failure to use reserves (who would have thought such an apparently simple game system as CLA could so accurately reflect the historical reality?).

If you want to play Mex rev in 15/18mmm, Darryl, you'll have to adapt and convert. Boers, Old West, and Chinese Warlord figures are the ones to look at.

That's interesting news about Italaeri, Umpapa. Of course we've seen these promises before: Imex has had a set of Villistas 'in the works' for at least a decade… and there's still no sign of it!

WW1 British will only work as Federales if you're very relaxed about historical accuracy: the uniform, webbing, equipment and armament are all wrong.

Henry Martini24 Nov 2016 4:21 p.m. PST

A small (but important) change to point 1.: '…, any army in 1915 except Zapatistas, …'

coolyork27 Nov 2016 5:30 p.m. PST

I am modifying "The Sword and the Flame" rules for this period. They have worked out quite well for my Span-Am games !

Henry Martini29 Nov 2016 3:11 p.m. PST

I recall that many years ago there was an article in the Courier about gaming the US intervention with TSATF that included rules mods and a table of troop ratings. Although there wasn't as much information on the military aspects of the conflict available in English back then it might still be worth tracking it down.

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