"Rethinking insurgents in Force on Force" Topic

I've been reading a lot of actual battle reports and watching a lot of footage involving insurgents pitted against western forces on Afghanistan and Iraq.

A couple of things come to mind where the FoF rules don't seem to mesh with actual real life actions

Insurgents in FoF are present in large numbers. This might be fine for something like Mogadishu but doesn't seem to be the norm in Afghanistan/Iraq where Western forces outnumber the insurgents.

Insurgents really do rely on hit and run, ambushes etc. They use terrain well so Western forces usually struggle to find them.

They also seem to rely on range in Afghanistan (hence return of 7.62 mm battle rifles in DMR role to engage insurgents at long distances).

As such Western forces are "pinned" in a fashion – not psychologically pinned down but rather lack the initial intelligence to engage effectively at least initially (though snipers were increasingly used as battlefield ISR units to support situational awareness).

Then there's the IEDs, using civilian shields, using Western rules of engagement (eg dropping a weapon, running to next position knowing Westerners can't shoot unarmed troops and grabbing a new rifle) etc etc.

The result is this asymmetrical concept – a handful of insurgents can stall and pin down a much more numerically superior and better equipped force.

Now I'm not finding this in my FoF games where I often run out of insurgent models (and I have something like 70 insurgents) despite facing only a handful of westerners who then proceed to mow them down with insane accuracy (D6 v D8 or D10).

The Hidden/PID/Is That A Rock rules are meant to achieve some of above but it's not really showing in my games;

Hidden – well the models are on the table so only hidden on paper. The Western player knows exactly where the models are located so can plan accordingly. Hiding relocated units (especially those using Out of Contact Movement) is hard as one again needs a 4+ on a D6.

PID – somewhat of a joke as passed on a 4+ on a D8 or even worse D10. It's one of those "pray for bad dice" kinda rules.

Is That A Rock Or Muj- Hard to spring with D6 troops as this limits ambush zone to only 12 inches. Insurgents often ambush from much more stand off ranges.

Some potential solutions

Insurgents to count as D8 troop quality for defense and ambushes

Insurgent units to be fielded in smaller numbers (3-5 max) with fewer reinforcement

Consider utilizing blinds for hidden units

I also find the Leader rules are problematic – I've often had no units activate (they need a 4+) and it makes it purely random for Taliban player.

It plays more like Lone Survivor (over exaggerated even if still pretty amazing feat but boring games) or Seven Hours (work of fiction) than actual combat ops.

Never cared for FoF for these engagements for just the reasons you cite. It really just turns into a super complicated game of "Whack A Mole."

I admit I never read rules that felt like they would work to replicate what you describe so I haven't tried gaming it again.

Deadles:

I group my Taliban into teams of six men, with two such teams being an ad hoc squad. Two to three squads are normal for a pitched battle type game. For an ambush game one squad is the norm. But I supplement that one squad with effective Taliban sniper teams, distant, standoff HMG fire or mortar fire and perhaps even SPG recoilless gun fire. I assign a headman who can activate a single team at -2 to the die roll once per turn, so long as he is in contact with the team being motivated. This combination seems to work pretty well. I also give the Taliban D8's as compared to say Palestinian or Libyan militias which are D6 troops. It seems to work well for me.

Have you looked at the Skirmish Sangin rules? They might give you what you're looking for. Weasel's No End in Sight rules are also very good for small unit actions.

Cheers.
Rod Robertson.

Then there's the IEDs, using civilian shields, using Western rules of engagement (eg dropping a weapon, running to next position knowing Westerners can't shoot unarmed troops and grabbing a new rifle) etc etc.

Handled in FOF and Ambush Alley through the Fog of War cards. Your view may vary.

I'd also state that our intent was for Force on Force to be a toolkit to create your own scenarios and to modify rules/change rules as you need to do. I don't want to speak for Shawn Carpenter, but as I was involved, too, I can say from my perspective, the rules are a starting point and feel free to change what you disagree with.

Thanks Martian. We mod our games a bit and write our own scenarios (currently working on WW2).

With regards to Fog of War cards I am a huge fan.

However of should be noted they're generally appearing more for insurgents (1:6 as opposed to 1:8 or 1:10) and very often they're negative on effect or have no effect especially when they roll up a tank or airpower.

You can of course customise a deck or even just design a specific FUBAR table.

Rod, some interesting ideas. How does the headman work? Is that in place of a leader?

We have been suspending rule for leaderless irregulars to require to roll to activate.

They still suffer from shrinkage and irregular moral and fire restrictions.

The headman is just an irregular force leader. He is part of a cadre of a leader, a dicker, a laptop-honcho and a religious elder which I use as a command group. This cadre was inspired by reading the exploits and tactics of the Taliban in Afghanistan and those of the late Abdelrahman al Ayachi in Syria. In those battles, paralysis among insurrgent teams was locally counteracted by such a connected and inspirational group. The headman is just a leader on speed, with extra command juice to get things going on the ground around him.

Cheers and good gaming.
Rod Robertson.

Ambush Alley is going back to their roots in their next version of the rules. It will be more of an asymmetrical game like the original, with some simplified reactions. It might address some of your concerns.

link

Have you considered using other rules, like Skirmish Sangin, for example, or the variant of Chain of Command – the name of which I forget…?

The CoC variant is called 'Fighting Season' but is still several months away. Looks good so far,