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Action Log

12 Nov 2016 3:52 p.m. PST
by Editor in Chief Bill

  • Changed title from "Remember " to "Remember "
  • Removed from Ultramodern Warfare (2006-present) board
  • Removed from Ultramodern Warfare (2006-present) board
  • Crossposted to Today in History board


733 hits since 11 Nov 2016
©1994-2017 Bill Armintrout
Comments or corrections?

Legion 411 Nov 2016 5:29 a.m. PST

No agenda, no politics, etc., please …

I don't have a similar chart for all the other Allied military personnel that have died in all those wars and other conflicts. That the US fought and died along side. So … This is for all … on Veteran's Day … 11/11/1918 – 2016 … RIP …

picture

Legion 411 Nov 2016 5:38 a.m. PST

Double post …

Rod I Robertson Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member11 Nov 2016 6:58 a.m. PST

Lest We Forget:

youtu.be/iQCOh-eECj8

Dulce et Decorum Est – Wilfred Owen

Bent double, like old beggars under sacks,
Knock-kneed, coughing like hags, we cursed through sludge,
Till on the haunting flares we turned our backs,
And towards our distant rest began to trudge.
Men marched asleep. Many had lost their boots,
But limped on, blood-shod. All went lame; all blind;
Drunk with fatigue; deaf even to the hoots
Of gas-shells dropping softly behind.

Gas! GAS! Quick, boys!—An ecstasy of fumbling
Fitting the clumsy helmets just in time,
But someone still was yelling out and stumbling
And flound'ring like a man in fire or lime.—
Dim through the misty panes and thick green light,
As under a green sea, I saw him drowning.

In all my dreams before my helpless sight,
He plunges at me, guttering, choking, drowning.

If in some smothering dreams, you too could pace
Behind the wagon that we flung him in,
And watch the white eyes writhing in his face,
His hanging face, like a devil's sick of sin;
If you could hear, at every jolt, the blood
Come gargling from the froth-corrupted lungs,
Obscene as cancer, bitter as the cud
Of vile, incurable sores on innocent tongues,—
My friend, you would not tell with such high zest
To children ardent for some desperate glory,
The old Lie: Dulce et decorum est
Pro patria mori.

Lest We Repeat.

Andy ONeill11 Nov 2016 7:53 a.m. PST

RIP

Vigilant11 Nov 2016 11:08 a.m. PST

England v Scotland World Cup qualifier tonight. Both sides plan to wear poppy arm bands in honour of it being Remembrance Day. FIFA may fine both associations under their policy against political, religious and commercial slogans at internationals! Hats of to the English and Scottish FAs for sticking 2 fingers up to FIFA and remembering those who have fallen for our freedom.

Khusrau11 Nov 2016 11:26 a.m. PST

Well said Rod, WW1 devastated my family and a generation in my country. There's no delusion of glory, just young men with few alternatives, who then rely on charity when they are dumped on the scrap heap by their own government. Bah humbug.

Lion in the Stars11 Nov 2016 12:16 p.m. PST

@Vigilant: I think the appropriate response to FIFA is to refuse to pay the fines, just to raise a couple additional fingers in their general direction.

Legion 411 Nov 2016 1:28 p.m. PST

Lest We Repeat.
There's no delusion of glory, just young men with few alternatives, who then rely on charity when they are dumped on the scrap heap by their own government. Bah humbug.

Come on … what did I say about No agenda, no politics, etc. ? These young people went to war for whatever reasons. Some volunteered, some were drafted, etc. … They did their duty or tried. And many, many never came back home alive. That is what we should remember.

We can talk politics and agendas, etc., on other threads on other days. Let them all RIP …

ITALWARS Supporting Member of TMP11 Nov 2016 1:34 p.m. PST

very pleased to read about England and Scottland disobbeyng to Mafia lead FIFA..represented by a couple of insignicant guys that cannot understand the legacy of countries whose sons lost their lifes for an idea of freedom..
in my country that could had been possible ..i'm sure they would have played bare torso to pay respect to Fifa/Mafia..
cheers to UK

Personal logo Condotta Supporting Member of TMP11 Nov 2016 2:42 p.m. PST

Legion 4, Thanks. RIP.

Rod I Robertson Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member11 Nov 2016 3:20 p.m. PST

11 November

Remembrance Day: rejuvenated interest in recalling the war and military sacrifice, attracting thousands to ceremonies in cities large and small across the country. It remained a day to honour the fallen, but traditional services also witnessed calls to remember the horror of war and to embrace peace. Remembrance Day ceremonies were usually held at community cenotaphs and war memorials, or sometimes at schools or in other public places. Two minutes of silence, the playing of the Last Post, the recitation of In Flanders Fields, and the wearing of poppies quickly became associated with the ceremony.

Legion 4:

No politics and no agenda, this is what we do in Canada on Nov. 11th. Honouring veterans and recalling the horrors of war which they endured or fell to is what it's all about here.

The greatest treasure which a nation that respects and cherishes its veterans and soldiers can hoard is peace.

Rod Robertson.

Begemot11 Nov 2016 5:14 p.m. PST

Rod:

Well stated. And it is most appropriate to post Owen's poem on this day. I think to try to exclude the horror of war is to trivialize the sacrifices made by those who die in wars. Looks like you in Canada know how to do this day properly.

Thanks.

Legion 412 Nov 2016 8:03 a.m. PST

Honouring veterans and recalling the horrors of war which they endured or fell to is what it's all about here.

The greatest treasure which a nation that respects and cherishes its veterans and soldiers can

We do the same in the USA. As I saw yesterday, at Vet events, Vet's just shook hands and wished each other well. And talked a bit about their experiences. But no one went into the bloody gritty realities of war. That is very well known.

It's more of a day to remember the dead and honor them and all Vet's. Not to recall all the horrors that occur in a conflict. We all know that. Combat Vet's especially …

The greatest treasure which a nation that respects and cherishes its veterans and soldiers can hoard is peace.
Really ? I didn't know that. I joined the Army because I was a blood lust crazed, mad butcher, with hate for all living things …

I think to try to exclude the horror of war is to trivialize the sacrifices made by those who die in wars.
Did not see anything like that. But as we know you and I had a very different experiences as Infantry Officers in the US ARMY. And based on your past record with me. If I say it's blue … you as it's red. Sadly I have a long memory …

Legion 412 Nov 2016 9:08 a.m. PST

As I said … a long memory … TMP link

Lion in the Stars12 Nov 2016 11:01 a.m. PST

I think we have a little bit of cross-talk, because the US uses November 11th to remember ALL the veterans, not just the fallen.

You see, the US already had a Memorial Day to remember the fallen that dates to the Civil War, it's the last Monday in May. When Armistice Day came about, the US decided to use November 11th to remember all the veterans.

Rod I Robertson Supporting Member of TMP Inactive Member12 Nov 2016 12:00 p.m. PST

Legion 4:

TMP may be based in the USA but its membership is international. Consequently you must expect different perspectives on topics here. The fact that much of the British Commonwealth celebrate their veterans and also remembers the horrors of war and thus hopes for peace is not an attack on the USA, it's veterans or you personally. It is just a difference. If the US wishes to fractionally distil out what we do on one day and crack it into two separate functions, then that is fine. The Memorial Day/Veterans' Day division is yours to make and celebrate and no one bregrudges you that. However do not expect us outside the USA to abandon our own traditions in deference to yours. We mean you no disrespect but we will not be tied to your way of doing things either.

So please, do not be offended; neither by us including the recollections of the horrors of war nor by an earnest resolve to end the madness of war as part of our Nov. 11th traditions. Our experience was different from yours and we choose to recall that WW I was supposed to be the "War to End All Wars". It wasn't and we aknowledge that it was not so. Thus we still resolve and work to make war a memory rather than a fact on this day in November.

So the honour/honor of veterans and serving soldiers and the recalling of the horrors that they endured, do endure now or will endure is just part of our different way and not an attack on yours.

Cheers and peace be upon you.
Rod Robertson.

Legion 412 Nov 2016 6:01 p.m. PST

I think we have a little bit of cross-talk, because the US uses November 11th to remember ALL the veterans, not just the fallen.
Yes, of course, but at most Veteran Day functions the fallen are usually remembered and honored too.

And yes, it is very nice for all Vets to be remembered. Especially after the way Vietnam Vets were treated upon their return to the USA. But to me … those lost should always be remembered at Vet's Day as well.

However do not expect us outside the USA to abandon our own traditions in deference to yours. We mean you no disrespect but we will not be tied to your way of doing things either.
Did not mean to say anything about your traditions. But the horrors of war are remembered, in both our holidays. We just see things differently and do things differently. To hope it never happens again, is to go without saying. Again US perspectives on many thing seems to be different than others. Regardless, all Vets living and dead should be and are honored. The Dead primarily on Memorial Day. But many do the same on Veteran's Day …

Personal logo capncarp Supporting Member of TMP18 Nov 2016 8:09 a.m. PST

When I am reenacting, some of the public occasionally asks questions alluding to the "gloriousness" of war. I usually reply that war is "the most un-fun thing you get to do in life". Live in dirt/dust/mud/heat/cold/rain/snow, not be able to bathe for days/weeks/months, have bugs crawl on you or bite you constantly, go hungry or eat food that is not the most appetizing, not see your friends or family for months/years, seeing your mates get hurt or die horribly, have people trying to kill you, having to possibly kill other human beings, which might even include very young soldiers who would be thought of as children outside the combat zone--war is not glorious, but it must be remembered in all its ugliness, so that we will not wage it frivolously, and we can keep fewer and fewer of mankind from dying needlessly. We do not worship war--we watch it like a wild animal that must be kept in a cage, and we study it to learn its ways and patterns to conquer and subdue it, if we cannot truly tame it.

I don't remember which of our gaming brethren first said this, but I truly believe that our fervent prayer should be that, someday, hopefully soon, all wargames will be either Ancient History or Fantasy.

Amen, brother, amen!

Legion 419 Nov 2016 7:34 a.m. PST

The only time war is "fun" is on a gaming table … Otherwise it should be avoided at all costs. But the world is still a very dangerous place.

May all those that died in war be remembered daily as well as remembering the horrors of war. As well as all those currently in the military in harms way or otherwise. And the Vet's that have served in the past. At least on Veteran's Day …

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