"If You Were Starting a Plains War Project Today" Topic

What scale and manufacturer would you use for figures?

What rules would you use?

Stosstruppen,
That's a good question, I join you in inquiry

25mm. Pony Wars.

Ha. I would use the bags of Old Glory I bought years ago.

15mm and 18mm
I'm using Yellow Ribbon and Pony Wars

Depends on how large an army you wish to field. I go with 28's.
But, for a smaller campaign, I would do 54 mm figures.
Loads available for cheap and bigger always looks better.

As I did myself a bit of research, quite a few months ago, I read that "Yellow ribbon, plain wars " , now defunct , was quite popular, I saw Sword and the Flame mods, and people using WH Far West rules.

Nonetheless I would like to know if there's other rules hanging around, so that's why I join you with in your question.

Thanks Ragbones !!

I think my Plains Wars would be between rival tribes, and ignore the murdering colonial forces.

No idea about rules or miniatures.

It depends on how large a project you want. If you go 28mm, I would start with Foundry Cheyenne. I think there about a dozen types with both mounted and dismounted versions of the same person.

Old Glory are compatible.

Hmmm. Wargaming the West, I'd probably opt for Apaches for various reasons -- but that's probably not what is meant by this topic.

I remember Foundry having lots of good ones, tho'.

15 and 18mm Blue Moon, Peter pig and Frontier

Pony Wars

It depends what I was trying to recreate. I like large figures, but I think 15s have a lot going for them if you want to represent wagon trains, open spaces, Indian camps, cav companies of 36-50 figures, etc.

For tribe vs tribe I would do 28mm – the combats are about close up bravery.

For the classic Custer vs Indians I would go with 15mm and use Science vs Pluck.

If your project covers the Southern Plains, I would go 28mm. For the U.S. Army, I would use Foundry & Artizan for 4th, 6th, 8th, & 11th Cav.; 5th, 11th, & 14th Inf. You would then have to use Monday Knight or Dixon for the Buffalo soldiers of the 9th & 10th Cav. & the 24th & 25th Inf.

On the Native side of things, the southern confederation of tribes (Comanche, Kiowa, Kiowa-Apache, Southern Cheyenne, & Arapaho), you can use Foundry, Conquest Comanche, & about 3/4ths of the Old Glory Plains Indians (the other 1/4 being noticeably Northern tribes such as Crow & Pawnee).

To represent the Lipan and Tonkawa, you can use some of the Old Glory & Foundry mixed in with a few Apache.

For the Delaware scouts, Foundry makes some on foot, but none mounted. Knuckleduster did have one old chief in a suit & top hat that makes a great Chief Falling Leaf.

Gatling guns, mountain howitzers, 10 pound Parrot & 9 pound Napoleonic artillery are available in 28mm. Lots of pack mules and pack horses, but little rolling stock such as escort wagons & ambulances are available.

Rules: I like Colonial Adventures from Two Hour Wargames, just reverse the ratio of mounted to infantry units.

I bought the Foundry Cavalry and Indians when they first came out under the Guernsey Foundry label. Still have not gotten around to painting them. Maybe one day.

I don't know much about the period but have two sets of rules I like the look of, both quite different. Yellow Ribbon and Pony Wars.

15mm for me for space/time/cost reasons. Minifigs as I think this is one of their better ranges and probably mixed in with the Yellow Ribbon range that I think is a Frei Corps one.

I really like the 28mm Foundy range but they would take me far too long to paint.

I seem to recall seeing a really very beautiful range that may have been 40mm. I saw them at the last Salute at Olympia and they were by a small company I'd not heard of. I wish I'd bought a few.

Well…

I have 15mm Hovels, Minifigs, and Frei Korps (a good many painted Indians, at least)and 28mm (unpainted) Foundry, including LOTS of Indians.

For the 15mm stuff I have Chris Peers' 'Too Few to Fight, Too Many to Die', a variant of 'Death in the Dark Continent', for multi-based figures. The 28mms will be individually based, and therefore usable with a number of rule sets: any of the detailed Old West skirmish games such as TRWNN, up to grand skirmishes/small battles with rules such as TMWWBK.

The 40mm might have been from Sash and Saber. Beautiful figures, as are all of the S&S figures. $45 USD for 7 mounted or 20 foot.

Ahhhh…..I would use what I already have. Minifigs, Hovels, Frei korps, Blue Moon and some Peter Pig. I have played Yellow Ribbon several times. Pony Wars looks interesting. I also like the look of the Tomahawk and the Flame TSATF variant. Battles for Empire II also has a Plain's Indian scenario for the Rosebud. I like those rules too.

I like Yellow ribbon as supply trains whether by pack mule or wagon are important.

Thanks,

John

Rules: TSATF variation

Minis: i would go for cheap but very plastic ones…Airfix US Cavalry my favourite..then Waterloo1815 ; Strelets, IMEX ecc…you have everything you could need at this scale..including wagons…don't forget vintage but easy to find Atlantic minis

15mm from Hovels – older smaller castingsw that are offered for a great price
18mm from Blue Moon – great range of figures

As for rules, while I like Yellow Ribbon a bit, I think they are too "wonky" with their Command Decision type of order chit placement. Saying that from reading the rules, not actually playing them. I would consider giving them a run through to see how I truly like them.

Yellow Ribbon for me but I'd also try Piquet and TMWWBK the next time that its a good day to die feeling turns up. I have the QRF Yellow Ribbon figures on individual bases.

Funny this comes up now. I did quite a bit or research myself into this exact subject. Then over the past year & a half I've bought about 70 mounted & 70 foot US Cav, enough for about 4 Companies with Command and of course, the Personality Command group, along with about 90 or so mounted & 50 or so foot Plains Indians. I plan to use a combo of Mtd & Dismounted units of Natives in the games, while the US Cav will all be mounted and only use foot figs when they "dismount". They are 99% Old Foundry Figs that I have admired since the 1980's or so. Perry sculpts & by most accounts & mine too, the best representation of the 7th Cav at the time of TLBH. They are beautiful figs. ALL of em! I got them in chunks off ebay for a damn good price, about a $1 USD per Figure. As for rules I have read & plan to use The Tomahawk and the Flame Rules Set Free here: link
I also have bought The Men Who Would Be Kings, which has Army Lists for The Plains wars. Now I just gotta paint, paint, paint.
Oh, one more thing. I went with 25/28's because ALL my other figs & terrain, which I do have enough to set up the West are 28's also. If I had 15/18 mm terrain figs already, I would have gone with Blue Moon. Just my $500 USD worth!
Peter
link

Atomic Floozy pretty much covered it for the 28 mm figures. All of my figures are Foundry. I will supplement with Artizan and more Foundry at some point but I have a rather large collection I am still painting. The Old Glory figures are good as well and you just cannot beat the price as far as metal 28 mm.

As to rules if you are going for large skirmish,which when you really get down to the history most of the battles with a few exceptions were large to small skirmishes. The Sword and the Flame variant The Tomahawk and the Flame is a good start. I recently picked up Dan Mersey's (sp?) All the Men Who Would be King which is his Colonial era variant on the successful Lion Rampant rules engine. I am quite fond of Lion Rampant for my Medieval games and the tweaks for All the Men Who Would be King looks excellent on the first read and includes army lists for the Plains Wars. You are looking at about 44 foot and 30 mounted for the natives and 32 mounted for the US Cavalry with these rules for a basic 24 point a side game.

I cannot recommend the period enough and there is a ton of good reading sources on the period.

Others have recommended 15 mm and if you are looking for price and space that is a good way to go and you have an embarrassment of riches in terms of figures.

On a different note take a look at the wonderful 40mm figures by Sash and Sabre. You cannot beat them for price and quality. And if you are into painting the Sash and Sabre figures give you a nice size pallet to go to town on especially for painting the natives and their exotic dress.

Any suggestions as to who might make figures suitable for Indian scouts, buffalo hunters, survey parties, etc. in 25/28mm?

I don't know. I would buy samples from various manufactures and check out how complete the ranges are. If Perry or Foundry makes them then there is a good chance I would go with them.

Regardless I would go 25/28mm. It is one of those conflicts that would be perfect for that scale. Don't need that many figs or space. As for rules I would use a TS&TF variant.

It is way down on my to do list, but I'd like to do it in 10mm. Not as flashy as the other styles, but I think you can get both the mass and the spread out natures of the engagements with big units of 10s. I have a lot of ACW cavalry that could probably do double duty (if I ever painted them). Pendraken has them in 10s and I've seen some quite respectable paint work on them.

link

All my Plains Wars figures (US and Native Americans) are
Sash and Saber. For rules, I use Brom's 'Bugles Boots
and Saddles' available from Sergeants3.

I play this period and use 18mm Blue Moon figs, they are really great figures, paint up easily, and if you are an OG Army member, are quite cheap per bag.

I use a modified form of Chris Peer's rules Too Few to Fight, Too Many to Die. I have played Pony Wars too on occasion.

I first fell in love with the period years ago when I played in a couple of Greg Novak's convention games where all the players held a cavalry command and he and his assistant ran the Indians, who you didn't even see on the table to start with. The cavalry had to find the village, attack it, and defeat the Indians.

Each player got a detailed potted history of your officer and a card with the details of your command – you command a company of raw recruits for example. Then you have a set of private victory conditions which are not necessarily the same for all cavalry commanders.

It was great fun!

I still do scenarios like that with my local group. You'd be surprised (or maybe you wouldn't) how often the cavalry lose!

Well I have figures but the Conquest Comanches and Dixon (?) Apaches are bare metal or primed – only the Spanish Solados are partially painted.

Given that, I probably wouldn't start the period.

Given that I did – then I would use what I have and use the Matchlocks on the Warpath rules.

I bought some of the Conquest Comanches for a somewhat different project and can't recommend them highly enough. If I was beginning a Plains War project I'd certainly give The Men Who Would Be King a long, hard look. I think Daniel Mersey's rules are brilliantly random and fun.

I forgot to mention my casualties & dead US horses are from Old Glory. Dead Indian ponies are Foundry ones that I modified. You can't play any period without casualties!

For a rip roaring tounge in cheek game it has to be Pony Wars. for, dare I say a more serious game Yellow Ribbon fits the bill.

Do a lot of reading before I buy anything.

1/72 badly needs a set of dismounted cav in plastic.