"How many British regiments lost colours in the AWI?" Topic
7 Posts
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| Winston Smith | 27 Oct 2016 2:24 p.m. PST |
Including Brunswick and Hessian.
I messed up on another thread, confusing the 7th with the 17th.
But it got me thinking…
Hessian colors were definitely captured at Trenton. A full stand For each regiment? Did any escape capture? At Saratoga, surrender of colours was a term of surrender. Now we know that eye witness accounts record some flying during the battle, so the usual "They did not use colours" does not apply. Why would they be demanded to be surrendered if they weren't present?
However, they were hidden in the baggage, and Gates winked at the technical violation. I won't go into the Convention Army controversy. What about Yorktown? We're colours supposed to be surrendered there? And in how many battles were colours lost? |
| Supercilius Maximus | 27 Oct 2016 3:26 p.m. PST |
The 7th lost a pair at the surrender of Fort Chambly in 1775; possibly another pair at Cowpens in 1781. The Hesse-Cassel brigade lost all of theirs at Trenton in 1776. The 17th may have lost theirs at Princeton in 1777, and another pair at Stony Point in 1779; cannot recall seeing conclusive evidence about either. The Saratoga regiments – only the 9th had theirs for sure, as their CO (Lt Col Hill) returned to England with them; a German officer stated that the British did not bring theirs on campaign with them – perhaps the 9th did as the senior /regulating battalion of the British brigade? Madam Riedesel reputedly sewed all the Brunswick colours into a mattress and smuggled them out with her baggage. A demand for them to be surrendered is not conclusive proof they were carried. At Yorktown – the 43rd, 76th and 80th are thought to have surrendered theirs; the 23rd and 33rd did not (the 17th may not have yet had theirs replaced – see above). There were two Hesse-Cassel regiments and the two Anspach-Bayreuth regiments, each of which could have had up to five each. Can't think of any others in North America, but it's getting late so I'm happy to be corrected. |
| Green Tiger | 28 Oct 2016 2:20 a.m. PST |
Well the 17th didn't surrender theirs at Yorktown because they had already lost them and Washington allegedly gave them back at the end of the war (though we have never been able to confirm this)but they were not replaced during the war. I'm afraid my knowledge in this is very specific so I can't comment on the other regiments… |
Red Jacket  | 28 Oct 2016 7:27 a.m. PST |
To the extent that colors were taken, where are they today? Other than the Tarleton colors that were recently sold at auction (who bought them?) are there any Revolutionary War colors still in existence? |
| Winston Smith | 28 Oct 2016 7:37 a.m. PST |
Richardson says that the Hessian flags taken at Trenton were cut up for souvenirs. |
| grtbrt | 28 Oct 2016 8:34 a.m. PST |
West Point has 2 captured flags on display until 2017.
a) 7th Fusiler (from Chambly)
b) Ansbach (from Yorktown )
both are in very good shape ,they are in a little cubby area in the museum .
I believe these were the 2 flags presented to Washington |
| Camcleod | 28 Oct 2016 9:17 a.m. PST |
Red Jacket The colours of the 7th at West Point:
link The Ansbach colours also at West Point:
link
link At the end of this article on Hessian flags are pics of various fragments:
PDF link |
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paints brigs for the British fleet.