"Would you have been a Patriot or Loyalist in the AWI?" Topic

I may have asked this years ago here. Whatever. If so it was the OFM and not me.

I don't want any automatic "I am a red blooded American veteran! Of course I would've fought with Washington!" reply.
I want you to think about your current political beliefs.
How do you feel about leftist agitators?
Would you consider Sam Adams a dangerous radical?
Are you a rebel at heart?
Are you satisfied with your lot in life?
Did you make a fortune as a smuggler, a slave trader, cheating Indians of their land?
Do you respect lawful authority?
Apply all these and more to your answer, based on your own reading and analysis.

I know what John Adams is supposed to have said, that Americans were one third rebel, one third loyal and the rest neutral. The kicker is that he was NOT talking about the American Revolution when he said that, but the French.

An interesting perspective is to be found in Kenneth Roberts' novel "Oliver Wiswell", written from the POV of an American Loyalist. It's rather eye opening.

I'm torn on that question. I probably would've been a loyalist.

My 5 year old son asked me this when we were at Minuteman park in Massachusetts over the summer.

A quick background as it is relevant to the discussion.

I was born and raised in the UK and served in the TA (UK National Guard) for 4 years with an older brother who served 22 years as a regular soldier.
I left the TA and emigrated to the US 19 years ago where I met my American wifey, who was raised incidentally in Acton MA, and now married 12 years with 3 kids.

I had already been a reservist in the UK so I would likely have been in a militia company in the US at the time. I saw my future as being in the US having met my now wife so probably more leaning towards my new adopted home than the one I had left.
It wouldn't have been easy and I think the sentiments of the militia company would also pull strongly on my decision. They are local to me and would directly impact my life more than the UK overseas.

Biggest factor in my decision would have been the kids/family.

David

I chafe at being told what to do, so that might put me in the rebel camp. But I also have a deep respect for law and order (I even had a guilty conscience as a teen when the gang would spend a day paying for one movie at the multiplex and hopping from screen to screen), so I might have remained loyal. Then again, I'm often a "wait and see" kind of guy, so I most likely would have been in that happy 1/3 who stayed on the fence until it was more clear which side to choose. That is based upon more than Adams' observation.

Rebel – I hate being told what to do as well, and strongly dislike onerous taxes to pay for bloated bureaucracies, whether 0.5% – 3%, or the now >50% many pay via the multitude of those levied on them as either taxes or the much nicer sounding but no less abhorrent "user fees".

Patriot. My family predecessors from then were. So likely I'd be the same. Plus I have no use for royalty.

Thanks.

John

Depends which side I was on.

Patriot.

Probably head for Canada, like my ancestors did.

Loyalist.

If family ties mean anything… From my mother's side I would join up with Washington and from my father's side I just could not keep myself from tossing a few round at the Brits for the sake of the old sod.

I would have been a Loyalist to start with but later may possibly have been persuaded by the concept on a 'new order' in a New World.

Also, I suspect which State I lived in would determine that speed of process.

I think that I would probably have emigrated to the New York or Boston area. I couldn't obviously have any influence on where I may have been born had my parents had been the ones to have emigrated there.

What little I know now, I would probably have tried to end up in the Salisbury, Rowan County area of North Carolina.

And what about you, Winston?

It really depends on just what I was doing for a living, if in shipping in Boston almost certainly a Patriot. If a farmer in New Jersey almost certainly a Loyalist.

Loyalist most likely

Impossible for me to say. So much would depend on context. I'm a natural rebel and hothead, and when younger was ardently pro-Patriot and so could easily have been in favor of revolution and independence. On the other hand, I'm also an ardent anglophile/britophile and today I look longingly at places like Canada and the Down Under lands and wish we were all united in a commonwealth of English-speaking nations under the Crown, with perhaps a more progressive historical legacy to British North America, freedom of movement and work among us all, and other benefits of NOT having become independent in 1776. So today, I am inclined to be a Tory and not upset the applecart, thinking that in many ways the Revolution was a mistake that I wish I could undo.

I've given it a lot of thought actually. I'm fairly confident that all variables being equal I'd have been a loyalist.

I am a red blooded American veteran! Of course I would've fought with Washington!

Hard to say. While by general tendency a Loyalist, I live in an area that was a hotbed of Rebel sympathizers which would tamp down my normal conservative manner. I might just have to go along to get along. Joining the local militia might be an easy way to show support but not deploy (getting too old for that anyway), at least if the British and Scottish and Hessian mercenaries stay away. Son #1 would join the Rebels in a heart beat; son #2 would probably be a minor crown functionary but could be converted. Wife's family is from a part of Great Britain that was suppressed at times and would support rebellion just to be nasty and get back at the British for what they did to her family in the 1600s.

Easier to envision my response to ACW as I am a Union man at heart.

Would have been a member of the Sons of Liberty when young, presuming they let brown guys in.

At this age I'd be a passive supporter, most likely to make noise about independence after a couple drinks.

I am pretty certain I'd have been in the Loyalist camp.

I am a Libertarian so……..
Rebel it is.
Besides, it's in my family.
My Grandparents came here in 1916 after partaking in the Easter Uprising in Ireland. I'm told UK authorities wished to speak with them.

Yes, my Grandmother, too!

I would probably have been persecuted into being a rebel after a lot of inadvisable public statements about the value of meritocracy and egalitarianism. I'm not very good at shutting up in time to stay out of trouble.

OTOH, I might also have been a Quaker and/or a minister in a less scientific age, so my assistance to the rebel cause might have been more secretive than holding a musket.

- Ix

I probably would have been a rebel. On the one hand, I am a law-and order type and would have instinctively distrusted the pre-war rebels, viewing them as trouble-makers if not criminals. On the other hand, I know that I would have hated royalty and titled aristocrats. What would probably tilt me over the edge would have been my knowledge that London was not going to allow further westward expansion.

But as others have noted, it is impossible to say with any certainty. Context is everything, and

I'm a Son of the American Revolution, twice over. Patriot!!!

Given the politics, geography, economies, governments of the time, still, a Patriot.

From the dictionary:

Patriot

1.a person who vigorously supports their country and is prepared to defend it against enemies or detractors.

From the dictionary:

Loyalist

1.a person who remains loyal to the established ruler or government, especially in the face of a revolt.

It thus seems to me that the terms MIGHT be interchangeable.

If some colonists vigorously supported the Crown and remained
loyal to the government in the face of the revolution, how
could they not be described with either title ?

I once asked that question of a 9th grade class, surprising
the hell out of the teacher (I was SME for the day….)

Since I'm a minister, I would have probably led a Militia Group made up from my congregation. Rejecting the State religion of the King of England and clinging to our Guns and Bibles we would go down fighting if that's what it took. FREEDOM!!! Oooops, your getting me excited Winston! I think I will plan an AWI game next Friday night.

Rebel. Although I had ancestors on both sides.

I would have done my very best to stay neutral. That being said, that would last only as long as representatives of either side did not do anything to massively me off, e.g. Loyalists burning my home, Rebels helping themselves to my livestock in return for paper I have no reason to believe will ever be worth anything, that sort of thing. If/when that occurred I'd have my mind made up for me,…big time.

I can hardly believe p-i-s-s is bleep worthy.

I am sure I would have been in the militia to defend my home from Indians and brigands. However I would most likely have been a Loyalist as revolting against duly constituted authority would probably be a nonstarter for me.

I think it would depend on how annoyed I was with the King's government.
I'm a rather conservative person, and Sam Adams would strike me as a dangerous rabble rouser. Today he does. But in 1775 with no talk radio or internet, who knows?
I hesitate to call their communications "primitive" back then because what we have today may not be much of an improvement.

I would have been incensed at my perception of having my rights as an Englishman violated by many of the decisions made by the British government pre-1775.

No representation in Parliament, from the Colonies, would likely have been first in my grievances, but the various taxes, followed by the Townshend Acts, even were I not in or around Boston, would have seriously overturned my apple cart.

As much as my mind would have been with the King, my heart would have been with my home and thus I would have served with the Patriot cause.

Just like the majority of American colonists, I would probably have at least started as a Loyalist. Obtw, the only AWI ancestor that I know of fought with royal Governor Tryon at The Alamance, the militia after '76 and ended up a Major in the Continentals.

Patriot.

Loyalist

Circumstances would have had an effect on me. If one side had treated my loved ones, neighbors or myself badly, I would have found myself in the other camp.

Being involved with local militia would have had an effect too. I would have been torn between siding with my neighbors and defending my home and rights, but wanting law and order at the same time. I'd probably lean patriot, but could also go loyalist.

I once read that Simon Girty tried to join the patriots around Pittsburgh when the war started, but his local enemies, who were already patriots, didn't want him. So he was forced to become a loyalist.

My ancestors were Patriots, with one paternal grand-sire (of whatever number "greats") serving under Washington in the Continental Army at Yorktown, and I believe also at Valley Forge. Another ancestor on my mother's side was a signer of the Declaration (Josiah Bartlett). I'm rather confident, given those circumstances, that I would have been solidly a Patriot myself. And, given my current attitudes, beliefs and principles, that should only be expected.

I find the very idea of a King abhorrent.

The idea that Royalty sprang from God's will is the single greatest con ever pulled in the history of mankind.

It's almost a Monty Python skit.

"And who made you King?"

"Why er, er, eh GOD!
That's right!! God wants me to be King."

"What? Why did God want you to be King?

Why He er, er, ahhhh. He told me so."
That's right! God told me that he wants me to be King."

Yeah, that's the ticket.

As I know my family background of the time I guess I will follow the party line and say Patriot. Still have the family musket.

Even though my family was living here in 1776 and were on the patriot side I'd probably be a loyalist. I have no problem paying taxes as I understand that "the good of the many outweighs the good of the few" and I'm generally supportive of stability, with a left leaning bent.

The thing is, none of us would have had these modern attitudes back then. Monarchy was pretty standard and unquestioned. Even successful revolutionaries offered George Washington a crown at one point.

We are all products of a 20th century upbringing, environment, and culture. That makes it pretty hard to establish what "we" would have done back then, unless you are inferring our modern selves go back in a time machine.

Also, as others have noted, the influence of your peers and surrounding community would be immense. As they still are today. And you don't get to choose what those might be.

I rather prefer a monarchy to some of the presidential options we see now and again…

Churchill said that democracy was the worst form of government possible, until you consider the alternatives. A constitutional Monarchy is the same. It isn't logical, but it is very stable when done properly and provides a break on the more extreme politicians. I'd be a loyalist as a result, looking to achieve change from within the tent. But then I'm a Brit.

Lets be honest who we would likely have supported at the time would have been whichever side was winning or looked like winning in our own neck of the woods. Most people then and now simply want to get on with their lives.

Patriot, my family was in Poland until 1914 so I have no relatives on either side in the conflict

Reading everyone's reasoning I'd have to say Kiltboy & KPinder's posts were spot on with my views.

Rebel, no doubt. I agree with Mako.

"The Amerixit will never work, they think they can break away and never pay tax again ??? Madness !!!"

I have issues with arbitrary authority, and difficulty with the concept of monarchy as the pinnacle of a class system, (which I suspect is a luxury of being a born baby boomer)

However, I come from a long line of military which began in 1776 when my ancestor arrived at Staten with the 71st as a 23-year old volunteer. The army is my tribe. This paradoxically has given me a basic trust in disciplined, professional hierarchies- until proved mistaken.

Also a record of supporting lost causes

Loyalist

My TMP name says it all.

My father was the first member of the family to return.

Rick

Staying as a British Citizen and not bowing to the misguided and illegal activities of the insurgents .
As to my peers -Then as now our family has land holdings on both sides of the Atlantic.
Overall it didn't matter to our family we gained property from both sides during and after the war and came out of it smiling .