Tango01 | 18 Oct 2016 9:02 p.m. PST |
… Already Here. "The first phase of Russia's war with the U.S. is already starting, and while it is not easily visible, it's incredibly dangerous. After months of speculation regarding the hacking of recent political figures and organizations, the U.S. intelligence community announced last week that it is "confident" that Russia is responsible. Wikileaks, a primary publisher of the documents resulting from those hacks, is making it evidently clear that it is targeting U.S. politics. U.S. intelligence officials also acknowledge that Russia may have a hand in hacks of various state electoral systems. The massive amounts of information contained in the hacks is nothing short of damning, especially for Democratic presidential nominee Hillary Clinton, but the releases could also be one of the largest information warfare campaigns in history. While there are questions over whether diplomatic differences between the Kremlin and Washington could go from harsh words to actual combat, kinetic attacks may not be necessary to constitute a dangerous conflict…" More here link Amicalement Armand |
Jabsen Krause | 18 Oct 2016 9:22 p.m. PST |
Russia have resorted to using typewriters for classified information and intelligence operations. Perhaps, other nations could follow suit. Either way, Hillary, or no Hillary, Trump wishes to "make friends" with Russia (probably so he can open Casinos and hotels in Moscow). Kinetic attacks, Network-Centric Warfare etc … Both are probable due to being an extension of foreign politics and the nature of the capricious candidates :-))))) |
piper909 | 18 Oct 2016 9:40 p.m. PST |
The US media and "official sources" are sure making a lot of very public hay with this sort of news, is all I can say, and what can be read into that? American reports would also be more simpatico if they didn't adopt such a hurt, "we're shocked, shocked that a major power would try to influence a foreign election" attitude. That's pretty rich coming from a nation that has manipulated elections and overthrown governments since at least WWII. |
Jabsen Krause | 18 Oct 2016 10:11 p.m. PST |
piper909: Brilliantly put! |
willlucv | 19 Oct 2016 3:15 a.m. PST |
Agreed, this sort of thing has been carried out, by a number of countries for decades, it's called playing the game. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 19 Oct 2016 7:48 a.m. PST |
It was alleged that the US tried to influence Putin's last re-election bid. I'm shocked. |
Tango01 | 19 Oct 2016 10:08 a.m. PST |
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Los456 | 19 Oct 2016 11:28 a.m. PST |
IMO this entire current rowe with Russia has been a completely manufactured crises by the US, as an offshoot of the Presidential election. That's a shame since whoever ends up in charge, and the rest of us as well, are going to have to live with the consequences. There's little evidence Russia had anything to do with the DNC Hacks, but its been politically convenient from minute one that the Russians be pinned with this and as frosting on the cake, that one of the candidates be associated as being in cahoots with Putin. From then on all things with Russian relations have gone down hill. We should be good allies with the Russians, after all, we share a lot of the same enemies. |
Hafen von Schlockenberg | 19 Oct 2016 11:40 a.m. PST |
I'd like to make it clear that I have nothing to do with the Russian rowe! |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 19 Oct 2016 11:46 a.m. PST |
The current rowe with Russia isn't unsalvageable. At the very least it won't have to get any worse. link |
Jcfrog | 19 Oct 2016 2:55 p.m. PST |
It might be slow. All in the same boat, the rowing boat. Ok ;)) |
USAFpilot | 19 Oct 2016 3:12 p.m. PST |
"Russia's war with the US…"????? More like the US's war with Russia with all the incendiary rhetoric coming from the US liberal press. US foreign policy is in disarray, and most of the world's leaders know it. Russia is making inroads with joint military exercises with countries which use to be US allies. |
Legion 4 | 19 Oct 2016 4:22 p.m. PST |
Well if this is as "bloody" as a US vs. Russia war gets … I'm fine with that … US foreign policy is in disarray, and most of the world's leaders know it. That should be in all caps … |
Pan Marek | 20 Oct 2016 8:11 a.m. PST |
Yep. Russia is absolutely benign. Putin is morally incapable of doing anything against anybody. He's a pussycat, really. Its all America's fault. Where is the proof that shows that all the hacks and other shenanigans are mere US inventions for the election? In Russia's Putin-cowed media? |
USAFpilot | 20 Oct 2016 1:33 p.m. PST |
Putin is Machiavellian. That is to say he is neither good nor bad, but simply logical. He will do what is in Russia's best interest. It is the idealists in my own country who frighten me. I would like to see our leaders put America first. We should work with Russia, and if not then we should follow Teddy Roosevelt's advice and speak softly and carry a big stick. The problem is our idealists talk loudly and the stick is smaller. |
Legion 4 | 20 Oct 2016 1:39 p.m. PST |
The problem is our idealists talk loudly and the stick is smaller. I pretty much agree … |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 20 Oct 2016 1:48 p.m. PST |
Hate to admit it, but the candidate most likely to lose next month has it right as to how we should deal with Russia. |
Legion 4 | 20 Oct 2016 2:14 p.m. PST |
Yes, for better or worse that rings true. (Sent in my absentee ballot today !) |
piper909 | 20 Oct 2016 10:39 p.m. PST |
It's a shame that the US and Russia can't play nice together, since as noted above by LOS456 we share enemies and many common interests and fears. I really think that there is an institutional interest on the part of too many players in the US military-industrial-Wall Street complex to reestablish the old Cold War paradigm, which they missed (Muslim terrorists haven't had quite the same major leagues cachet). Or, more fearfully, they seek to establish a monolithic and unchallenged American hegemony worldwide, which I do not see as desirable or attainable and the pursuit of which is fraught with peril. |
Legion 4 | 21 Oct 2016 10:31 a.m. PST |
I'd much rather have the Russians as allies in the war on terrorism … |
Mithmee | 21 Oct 2016 1:53 p.m. PST |
More likely we will be fighting China long before Russia. |
Charlie 12 | 21 Oct 2016 6:06 p.m. PST |
More likely we will be fighting neither Russia nor China. Not a good idea for nuke power players to go to war (likely to end badly, very badly…). More likely a proxy (pick one, any one…). |
Legion 4 | 22 Oct 2016 9:46 a.m. PST |
Well we'll have to see what happens in a couple weeks. To get a better feel/read on the situation. |
Rod I Robertson | 22 Oct 2016 3:41 p.m. PST |
My apologies if I end up hijacking this thread but I have a few questions which have been rattling around in my head for some years and I think given current events and the commentary here on TMP, it might be worth asking some of them. I see a preoccupation with anticipating and seemingly a yearning for a titanic conflict between the US and China or Russia or a more amorphous Dar el Harb of radical Islamists here on TMP. This is an interesting phenomenon here on TMP. Given the age and military interests of many who post here, is this preoccupation a hold-over from the Cold War days? Was a generation imprinted with the conviction that human societies would definitely immolate themselves in some titanic war of extermination? Are the roots of such a terrific self-destruction to be found in the Judeo-Christian tradition of Armageddon and the Christian Rapture? Is it a function of the anti-social behaviour exhibited by most animals when over-crowded? Is this fatalism a part of our culture from two and a half generations of books and movies obsessed by the apocalypse during the Cold War? Is it a hang-over from the millennial madness of Y2K, 17 years ago? Is it something else deeply rooted in our amygdalae or in our souls? What about us makes us so convinced that we're doomed to die in a super-power conflict and thus causes us to see any move by our potential strategic adversaries as the first step in a chain of possible events which pose an existential threat to our existence? Have we been bred to existential paranoia or is some other mechanism at work here, like a media which sensationalises manageable differences of policy into unsolvable deadlocks which thus escalate in our minds to a desire for war? Are we predisposed for wanting war? Are we Skinnerian rats being conditioned in a military-industrial maze? Do we wish to avoid having to solve our many real problems by the denial of focusing on and courting our imminent demise along with the rest of our species and much of the biosphere? Will our preoccupation with war be our Achillies heel and ensure our lemming-like self-destruction? Are we suicidal or are we obsessed with predatory-instincts-run-amok which we cannot or will not control? Are we all part of a death-cult? Cheers? Rod Robertson. |
Legion 4 | 22 Oct 2016 4:04 p.m. PST |
IMO, Russia, China and the USA/NATO will not go to war any time soon if ever. All have too much to lose. And all know a nuclear exchange is a no brainer – no win, situation. As all those mentioned want to survive and thrive. Regardless of all the sabre rattling, posturing, etc., that goes on. And has been occurring for years. The lunatic fringe liked islamic fanatics/ militant islam are more likely to use a nuke(s) if they got them than any one else. IMO, and we all know the reasons why. And Un is just talking his usual trash. He is already in "Paradise". He does not want to go anywhere. And if it really did look like he and/or his minions were going to press the button. The Chinese will across the Yalu[again] and put an end to this foolishness. They don't want any fallout and refugees coming across their border, either. And the DMZ will have South Korea on one side and the PRC on the other. Which in the long run may be a better solution. China and the ROK could open up trade negotiations, etc., And Un plus his cronies would have an accident. While trying to stop the PRC from entering his "kingdom" … Will our preoccupation with war be our Achillies heal and ensure our destruction? Well this is a war game, military modelling site … so … Are we suicidal our obsessed with predatory instincts run amok? Probably only on the gaming table … IMO … |