"Variable Terrain" Topic

I have noted in my reading the many many times one or both sides were in terrain or entrring terrain that they did not know, that was not what it seemed from maps or photographs or in person observation
So, any ideas as to how to put this into a gama?
My only thought is that it would require an umpire

You could have areas on the board cordoned off as unknown terrain type and create a chart of variable terrain and roll to decide what each area contains as you enter it.

The best system I ever saw (and occasionally use) was Andy Callan's Forest Fight (in Nugget 29, October 1985, I think it was also in one of the glossies. It is described here
TMP link (it needs an umpire).

Tim Gow's "Who Squares Wins", which was the Wargame Development Display Tem (North) game for 2004, used 4" square mdf terrain tiles which were placed face down in a grid – the players turned the tiles when they recce'd or enetered them (see Nugget 188 March 2005)

If you wanted a system which didn't need an umpire or special equipment why not have a rule that on entering new terrain roll a dice and refer to a simple table to see what the terrain is really like.

I think John and the good Mr. Sigwald are basically right. As a refinement:
If one side knows the terrain, the terrain can be revealed as the other side explores.
If both sides are in ignorance, than dicing for the terrain is more feasible, but keep in mind that randomly-generated terrain may preclude a battle. I'd also say only do this at home, and be sure you have all the terrain Murphy might demand.
You also have the possibility that the terrain is only unknown in (sometimes important) specifics. Commanders know where the river is, but not whether or where it's fordable, or where a woods is but not its density. How thick is the ice? And is that grassland or marsh? That sort of thing can be quickly set up and diced for as troops reach the terrain. It's much easier on the host than providing random terrain in pieces as called for.

The Virtual Armchair General has a set of cards to generate random terrain effects for different environments.

Longstreet uses cards that a player can use to add terrain during the game…. a rather neat mechanic I think and works well.

All good points. Another to consider: rules for "discovering" terrain will make scouting critical, so make sure you have rules that support scouting in a way that is simple, streamlined, and won't bog down the game.

- Ix

Search for the Nile had a good system for doing this. Yes it is a board game but sometimes they contain some good ideas.

Another game mechanic to consider is adding a die roll to determine if two figures can actually see each other. It add a die roll but it makes combat in rough terrain much more interesting.

POW?

Longstreet uses cards that a player can use to add terrain during the game…. a rather neat mechanic I think and works well.

That is different. The terrain card is a weapon used against the opposing player at the most opportune time--anywhere.

We use chits with the actual severity/quality of the terrain placed on the table, blank side up. It some cases there are chits in open areas. Some of those are dummies, some are terrain like swampy areas or dips that could not be seen until you are on them. Chits are seen when the terrain is entered. The side that entered the terrain can 'see' the the chit but it remains blank side up until or if the opponent 'gets there' too.

It does encourage scouting.

If this sort of thing bothers you, then just randomise the terrain effects when features are first encountered.

I do this sometimes, and yes, it encourages terrain recce but sometimes also hair tearing frustration among the players. Depends what you are trying to model.

In some siituations completely random terrain generation is entirely appropriate – such as marching across the Sudan desert in the 1880s.

The problem with random terrain is that it can take a game out of the set of interesting games. Apparently soft goinging could turn out to be bad going. But if overdone it could become impassbale. If it was key terrain the game could be come uninteresting and force abandonment. We never play on from a boring situation life is too short. Hope that some random event changes everything is not very real and does not to us add interest.

Adding cards such that any one card could be delt but any card makes the game playable would be good but makes scenario writing even harder.

Rivers in DBA are variable, you don't know how hard they will be to cross until the first unit gets there

Another way of looking at this is "how many terrain types are significant in your rules ?"

So if area terrain has for instance only three types (for instance) good, rough, and bad, it would again be reasonable not to know which of the three it will be until you get there, and perhaps a simple die roll would do. You don't need any complex card system as the number of outcomes is small.

The real question becomes how it affects the balance of the game. For instance, if the basic unit is a brigade, the impact of terrain will be different from in a skirmish game.

Off the top of my head, area terrain could be split into 3 or 4 and you might not know what the terrain is like in each sector until you get to that sector.

It would be reasonable to know whether an area contained a particular terrain type (forest, hill, swamp) but not how it would affect your forces.

You could always throw in the effect of rain, just for fun of course, not that it might add enough complexity to bog down the rules as well as the poor infantry

John