""Pork Chop Hill"" Topic

I have seen it before, and I wouldn't be surprised if you have too, but it had been a long time since I last saw it, about thirty years for me, so it was worth seeing again. I forgot how many character actors and emerging stars were in it! George Peppard, Norman Fell, Robert Blake, Harry Guardino, Rip Torn, Bob Steele, Woody Strode, Martin Landau, Abel Fernandez (Youngblood on The Untouchables), Harry Dean Stanton, Gavin McLeod (Love Boat) and of course, Gregory Peck.

Action packed all the way through, Peck and his battalion must take Pork chop Hill and hold it while the ceasefire agreement is being negotiated at Panmunjom. The reality is that the hill has no strategic value, but the Americans must show that they are determined to fight, no matter what. It's very grim and stark as it's filmed in Black and White by director Lewis Milestone who does an amazing job. Many of the characters have their own vignettes. Grown up Bobby Blake (The Little Rascais) is good as a runner that accidentally wounds himself severely with a grenade, but still manages to destroy a bunker with a second grenade. Then, after he delivers a message, Peck orders him to go to an aid station, he says OK reluctantly, but never actually leaves, and keeps popping up in the middle of the action to the surprise of Peck. Woody Strode is reluctant to die for the hill as he knows that peace negotiations are going on and the hill isn't worth it. Peck must convince him to fight for the cause in a very tense scene where he and Strode are alone and Strode could easily kill him. Harry Guardino also has a tough scene where he is distraught at the death of a close friend.

IMHO, this is one of the best war films ever, and if you haven't seen it in a while it's definitely worth having another look.

Great movie, seen it many times. First saw it in the theaters when it came out. I was about 7, and my buddies and me played PCH many, many times after that. Milestone of course directed All Quiet on the Western Front. He mimicked the "roll the camera on tracks along the barbwire as the men reach it under fire" scene from that movie in PCH.

Pretty gritty, especially for 1959.

+1 to the comments above in praise of Pork Chop Hill.

Milestone is a great director; one of my favorites. Other war films directed by him include:

A Walk in the Sun
Halls of Montezuma
The Purple Heart
Edge of Darkness
The North Star.

A Walk in the Sun is also a (black and white) classic and makes for a good miniatures scenario.

Milestone also directed the Rat Pack in the original Ocean's 11, but Sinatra was really the boss of that film.

All are worth watching.

One note: Peck commands a company. not a battalion, in the movie, although he could have used the reinforcements. His character is based on a West Point graduate.

>>One note: Peck commands a company. not a battalion<<

Right. My old brain took a momentary hike. :-)

I never saw "Edge of Darkness" or "The North Star". It seemed like "The Purple Heart" was on TV every five minutes back in the '50's.

>>Pretty gritty, especially for 1959.<<

Agreed. Milestone sure didn't mind spilling the claret. Great battle scenes. The one where the lights are turned on the troops attacking the hill was very memorable. Bobby Blake's arm looked pretty shattered too.

I, too, liked Pork Chop Hill but I really, really liked A Walk in the sun. Saw it first on TV over 30 years ago then it seemed to disappear but I found the book and that kept my interest going. One of the movie channels now shows it and I've watched it twice in the past two years. Great material for a larger scale skirmish game.

Pork Chop Hill would work as a medium scale wargame. A map of the hill and trenches are shown very clearly while they are discussing tactics. The plan is discussed also. One platoon goes up the left side and one platoon goes up the right side, while the third is initially left in reserve. Peck says that they are up to strength except for the heavy weapons section which has been loaned out. I don't recall an estimate of the Chinese forces though. The weapons in Peck's company all look like very standard M1s, M1 carbines, BARs, .30 air cooled MGs, bazookas, and Thompson SMGs The Chinese weapons include PPSh-41 SMGs, Mosin Nagant rifles and Lewis Guns. Both sides also used M2 Flamethrowers. Both sides also used artillery.

Pork Chop Hill is based on the book of the same name by S.L.A. Marshall and follows the book very closely.

One thing I really like about PCH is that when the stars are having their moments onscreen the action in the background doesn't stop unlike more modern films.

Excellent film. My father in law commanded a heavy weapons platoon on a hill within sight of Pork Chop. He has refused to see the film because he says it gives the Marines credit for the fight. I have tried to tell him otherwise. I believe it is because Peck has a jacket in the poster that was also worn by USMC.

Coming bit player: Sidney Poitier has one line when guarding Woody Strode.

I believe Gregory Peck used his own money to get the movie made, too. He is an uncredited Executive Producer.

I saw it on TCM for the first time a few years ago and they gave a lot of interesting info about the film after it was over.

>>Coming bit player: Sidney Poitier has one line when guarding Woody Strode.<<

I don't recall the scene, but it couldn't have been Poitier as he was already an established actor by the time PCH was released. He had already starred along with Tony Curtis in "The Defiant Ones" a couple of years before, and he starred in "Porgy and Bess" in the same year as PCH. I know that Black actor James Edwards was in the film, which is interesting because he was in two more Korean War films, "The Steel Helmet" and "Men In War". He was in "The Manchurian Candidate" too.

Slightly off topic, but when I had am M1 carbine, I looked FOR YEARS, for those magazine pouches that were worn on the leg.

Hav'nt had that carbine in over 15 years, and I never did find those pouches.

Wounder…

>>when I had am M1 carbine, I looked FOR YEARS, for those magazine pouches that were worn on the leg.<<

I have an M1 carbine. The pouches aren't that hard to find but there are two problems. First there are a lot of fakes out there. They are really counterfeits as they are being sold as original. I have one that is supposedly original, but I will always have my doubts. The second problem is that they fit *very* tightly and the metal button can scrape your carbine. In short. I have one, but I don't use it. An M1 carbine in nice condition is hard to find, so I'm not taking any chances marring the wood. I have to say though, they are a lot of fun to shoot. :-)

This is the perfect conversation for the Korean War Gaming forum. I hope y'all will consider joining and sharing!

foxcompany.freeforums.org

Yes, it was a pretty good movie and book as well. And yes, Peck was Company Cdr … not Bn.

You are right Shadow. All this time I thought it was Sidney.

vtsaogames

Poitier and Edwards had a very similar "look", so that was an easy mistake to make. :-) Edwards was a damned good actor too! He was in a couple of WW II flicks as well. After you've seen him so many times in uniform, you begin to realize that he was type cast as the "clean cut American negro" representing the Black race in war films.

Not to be too pedantic but the film is based on the actual "1st Battle of Pork Chop Hill" which is what SLA Marshalls book about. ;-)

Peck and Milestone were very unhappy with the films final cut. Both felt that the anti war message was diluted by the studio.

I have always liked and my father, a combat veteran, said that it was very realistic.

One of Featherstones books (Battlenotes for Wargamers?) covered wargaming the battle.

Fatman

Yes, I was referring to Marshall's book. I hope/thought everybody knows the movie was based on that. And should read it if that war interests you.

I did not feel the anti-war message didn't come across, but Peck, etc., would know better based on all that was filmed.

>>Peck and Milestone were very unhappy with the films final cut. Both felt that the anti war message was diluted by the studio.<<

What was cut?

What I got from the film was that this particular group of men was being sacrificed for the greater good of a signed cease fire. Theoretically, soldiers are *always* being sacrificed for the greater good. So, to me, it looked like these guys just ended up in the wrong place at the wrong time, and they *knew* it. That knowledge was hammered home many many times. I thought that one of the many great things about the film is that it showed all of the conflicting feelings about being in a battle. Courage, reluctance to die, self sacrifice, the weight of responsibility, grief over lost friends, leadership and stubborn idealism. WOW! The more I think about it, the more I like this flick!

I enjoyed the film a lot and its the closest a movie has come to getting me into a wargames period,along with that old Waterloo film.

I had a friend that was in the Merchant Marine in WW2, and had a ship he was on sunk on top that. However, in WW2 the merchants were not considered military. So he was drafted and fought as an infantry sergeant on that hill.

Great movie and yes Hollywood has been putting out Anti-War movies for years.

Oh and yes war sucks big time but there are times that you better be willing to fight because otherwise you will lose and today there are far worst things that can and will happen.

No no no This action would not work as a wargame. Follow.
In both book and movie the point is made that the battalion command doesnt know what is going on on the hill nor at the negotiations so the game done from battalion would have TMI. And there would be TMI from Clemens POV, as he doesnt know about the other companies, indeed, not much about his own as the battle progresses.
No wargamer is going to permit the seachlight error or the barbed wire misinformation.
Indeed, the last minute rescue, Hollywood style, would be very difficult in a game.
And supply questions must be addressed
Otherwise the game would be another Hollywood production

But then SLAM was accused of fudging his data for his Men Against Fire

I had heard the same about SLAM's "veracity" … I hope it is not true.

I think the biggest reason it won't war game well, at least with minis, is trying to model the terrain…