Fred Cartwright | 07 Oct 2016 7:26 a.m. PST |
I know that the Afrika Korps had some 250 & 251's, but not in the Panzergrenadier battalions. Clearly there were some command variants such as Rommel's Grief, but what were the others used for? |
Rich Bliss | 07 Oct 2016 8:44 a.m. PST |
I believe that some me were used for Combat Engineers and some of the 250's might have been in th Aufklarungs Battalions. |
Frederick | 07 Oct 2016 8:46 a.m. PST |
As I recall Sdkz 251s were issued to one company per Panzergrenadier battalion early in the war – for example in December 1941 115 Schutzen Regiment had 14 Sdkz 251 on establishment with 9 in service while in theory 104th Schützen Regiment had 14 Sdkz 251s but none were in service There are photos of Sdkz 251s being used as what appears to be personnel carriers |
jekinder6 | 07 Oct 2016 9:18 a.m. PST |
The Machine-Gun Battalions had one company each in Sd251s. |
Lion in the Stars | 07 Oct 2016 12:49 p.m. PST |
250s were in the Aufklarungs (recon) units. Panzergrenadier battalions usually had one company in 251s and the others in trucks. |
Starfury Rider | 07 Oct 2016 4:38 p.m. PST |
Normally the Pz Recce Bns used 250s and the Pz Grens 251s but the Afrika Korps versions didn't really adhere to the 'standard' org. There are a few gliederung over on Sturmpanzer, which show various orgs for late 1942. The usual Recce Bn halftrack company has a note which I think means 'equipped with booty equipment at present', which was unlikely to be halftracks of any sort. Likewise the PzGren Regts in the Afrika Korps lacked the halftracks found in other Pz Divs (though there were surprisingly few halftrack equipped Coys in 1941 anyway). The other main candidates would be the Signal Bn, though the actual KStN aren't around for that period, or the Pio Bn, which only had one Pl of one Coy authorised to have halftracks as of mid 1943. The two MG Bns in 5th Light Div were noted as each having 10 carriers, generally referred to as being 250s, so not really that big a lift capability. Gary |
Martin Rapier | 08 Oct 2016 12:08 a.m. PST |
As above, DAK didn't use standard organisations. The few units with 251s are covered in Benghazi Handicap. |
Fred Cartwright | 08 Oct 2016 5:45 a.m. PST |
Thanks for the replies. Had a look at Benghazi Handicap and it shows 251's in the MG battalions of Schützen Regiment 200 of 5th Light and in 1 of the coy's of the pioneer battalion of 15th Panzer. The rest are scattered as odd command/staff radio vehicles. Neither is shown as having 250's in the Aufklärungs battalions. However it only takes DAK units up to the end of '41. |
4th Cuirassier | 08 Oct 2016 6:50 a.m. PST |
I think you would find they used quite a few Bren Carriers as well. And deuce and a halves. |
Fred Cartwright | 08 Oct 2016 9:06 a.m. PST |
They wouldn't have got the deuce and a halves until Kasserine and then they had M3 half tracks as well. Bren carriers for sure and trucks. I will go with Benghazi Handicap I think for the '41 battles and then just get a few more 251/250's and sprinkle them around for later periods. |
Starfury Rider | 08 Oct 2016 9:34 a.m. PST |
This might give a guide for later on – PDF link It's the 'official' organisation for a Pz Div in North Africa. It seems unlikely either 15th or 21st Pz Divs actually got onto this scale, but gives an idea of what they were aiming for. Just a few armoured halftracks listed, split between command roles and specialist arty vehicles. Gary |
Leadgend | 09 Oct 2016 9:38 p.m. PST |
According to Neihorster one platoon in the HQ of each of the MG battalions of 5th Light Div and the Second Company of I battalion of 115 Regiment of 15th Pz Div were equipped with 251s in June 1941. link It's my understanding after the initial use as above the 251s disappeared into various command/observation/signals units, possibly due to their cross country performance rather than armour protection. |
Blutarski | 10 Oct 2016 6:20 a.m. PST |
It might be worth looking into Nafziger's publication on Afrika Korps organization and order of battle, which IIRC was based upon actual returns as opposed to official TO&E. B |