"Roman line relief system" Topic

The Roman's line relief system is much debated but can anyone tell me our latest reference to it in the sources?

I imagine such a handy trick would have remained in use but I'd like to know for sure.

Thanks in advance.

You mean the last time it is mentioned being used?

Perhaps what you need to seek is Roman army deployment. If they deployed in multiple lines, there is a good chance the lines were planned to replace one another.

Yes that's it.

They pretty much always deployed in multiple lines which is suggestive- but not the same as an actual mention.

Very interesting piece in Slingshot around 4 months ago on Polybian line relief; an alternative theory.

Yes saw that. The reason I'm trying to locate the last mention is that I'm writing a set of rules for the Late Roman period. I have a mechanism to enable line relief on the table but I want to be sure it was still in use before including it.

I'm not familiar enough with the later Byzantine military manuals to know if it turns up there. If there was the equivalent like the testudo/foulkon I'd be on firmer ground.

I'm not aware of evidence for line relief after the Polybian era. We know that second and third lines were committed in the Caesarian and Early Imperial periods, but not what happened to the first line AFAIK.

Thanks that sounds right to me.

I'm not aware of evidence for line relief after the Polybian era.

Yep line relief was standard Roman tactic. Hence the Roman deployment. But only really used against enemy infantry.

Most armies likely deployed in depth of some sort. The Romans perfected the line switch with regular precision. In the later Republic and Early Imperial period, the lines were largely homogenized into legionaires complete with somewhat standardized equipment and armor.

I suspect line relief was still in use then but is less talked about, probably as a forgone conclusion as in "Everyone knows the Romans do line relief. It's been their thing for 100s of years!"

It's not until the middle and later imperial periods, when the emphasis is switched to cavalry that we see the legions decline in skill and drill. As Big Red Bat says, there isn't a lot of direct evidence but the fighting style of the legionaire is basically the same so why not the tactics as well?

Do keep in mind that Caesar occasionally tells us about his deployments. Pharsaulus, for instance, he used a third line which in turn was moved to the flank to drive off Pomey's cavalry. Not line rlief but an example of a 3 line deployment after the so called Polybian period.

The problem I have is that we seem to have no evidence of its continued use. Nor having had a cursory look at Byzantine sources does it seem to turn up there.

Deploying in depth with multiple lines does continue through out and is well attested. Not so line replacement.

I think line replacement would have been handy against horse archers too and we have some detailed accounts of such campaigns but no mention of line replacement.

Of course so many texts that might have mentioned it were lost so its not conclusive that it fell out of use. On the other hand we cannot with any certainty say it did continue.

The problem I have is that we seem to have no evidence of its continued use.

The more I think about it the more I believe that you will never find any evidence, because there isn't any. The early Republic used maniples of about 120 men. Easy enough to pass these guys through a line in chaos. Change that to a cohort of around 500 men in a formation a few ranks deeper and you find that the move is not so easy.

Marius also thought that his men should be the most physically fit men in the world. So he made them carry everything with them. Marius' mules they were called. So they were getting away from "exhausted troops retreat and the fresh ones take over" and went to "we can out last anyone on the planet!" The other reason for the change would have been the enemies they were facing were primarily cavalry forces. So a larger phalanx like formation was better suited for the job. You still had a second line (most other armies probably used a second line as well) to prevent a breakthrough.

Yeah all good points especially on out lasting the foe.