"WSS flag question?" Topic

New to the period and just trying to get my head around how the participating battalions used their two flags. Would the battalions from the same Regiment have one in common? There was no national flag for the continental armies?

Not only did it vary between nations but also sometimes between regiments within a nation.

Some nations started the war in transition from one flag per company to two flags per Bn so it isn't always certain exactly what flags were carried.

Austrians and other German states often had a Leibfahne where British had a 'national' flag (which wasn't really that, it was still termed the Colonel's colour at the start of the war) and the French had the same flag as the Colonel's colour for most regiments (a white cross on a white ground).

There are some examples of 2nd Bn flags being distinguished from 1st Bn (even a few – I think – with significant differences) but many seem to have had the same flags.

Bear in mind that the information on this area is fairly thin on the ground and a good deal of published work has a lot of intelligent guesswork.

Depends on the army. There wasn't really a national flag in the modern sense, but most armies carried flags with some sort of consistency.
French infantry carried a single white "King's colour" and specific regimental colours, the first battalion carried the King's and regimental colours, the other battalions the regimental colours only.
Dutch infantry tended to carry colours of the province they were raised by, so they look less consistent than the French.
British regiments generally have a Union flag after 1707(?) plus regimentals, before that they might have a red St. George's cross on the regimentals (though not necessarily). Regimentals bore symbols of the place or person that raised the regiment, sometimes colonel's coats of arms. The use of company colours seems to have persisted, though the tendency is to gather these in the centre. Company colours are generally of a piece, though often bear symbols or numerals to distinguish them.
Austrian and Prussian flags tend to have eagles on them, but in many different configurations. Bavarians usually have blue and white lozenges and often the virgin Mary.

So there's a definite theme in most armies, of symbols or colours, but not the sort of modern homogeneity you see in Napoleonic flags or even mid 18th century ones, but you can see the trend beginning. It's hard to give an overview in a couple of paragraphs.

Two Crowns Spanish used flags the same way as French --that is, two flags per battalion. First battalions being charged with carrying king's colour or "bandera coronela", being all the rest of flags original to each regiment. Such regimental flags followed a multi-colored polygons pattern like the French ones too --albeit under a Burgundy cross rather than a St. Denis cross, logically.

As for Austro-Catalans, they followed the same practice than Imperialist regiments (basically similar to the French one, I understand): two flags per battalion, one of them representing king's own colors, while the other was own to the regiment itself. Only that such regiments were always single battalion sized, so both flags shown were always different to each other.

Not all French infantry used the plain white cross on white. 'Royal' regiments and the Guards had their own designs.

The exceptions to the St George cross before 1707 may well have been more common than the basic one. We know surprisingly little for certain about British flags (and bear in mind that Scottish flags were significantly different to English) before 1707.

I don't think that the whole of Dutch regimental flags have the provincial arms on them but they do often appear somewhere on the flags.

Another thing to confuse the issue is that many published flags are based on captures during the 9 years war and it is quite possible that flags issued after that were different.

White cross on white? How is THAT even possible? Off to Google I go…..

As far as I know the white cross is a separate item, sewn onto the white background.

White is the Bourbon colour and a white cross (previously on a red background) had been used as a national symbol in France since early medieval times.

Thank you all for taking the time out to explain it to me. At least now I can understand why I was finding it difficult to get a handle on it. Looks like it will be a long process.

Since you're talking flags, can I ask a question which has benn bugging me since forever but for which I never found an answer?

What do you know about a french flag, blue with a large white cross? Is it a kings standard? Is it a particular noble family standard? Is it a national symbol? I've seen in paintings and movies (Alatriste, french cavalry at Rocroi) but have no idea.

I'd like to paint it on french infantry bases circa 1775 to mark them as french, but don t know if it is appropriate as a french battlw flag.

The only blue with a large white cross flag I know of is the Regimental flag of La Couronne #28 :
link

The French Royal banner was at one time blue with a field of gold fleurs de lis.
A more modern one is white with a field of gold fleurs de lis.
Either would make a good game marker. I'm using the blue version for some of my French F&IW troops for Sharp Practice.

link

The movie version may just be for recognition of who's who on the screen.

Camcleod, thanks, not the answer I was hoping for unfortunately.. Painting white with golder fleurs is going to be pretty difficult on 2mm bases.. I guess I have no choice..

Valerio – just a plain white flag would actually be historically correct at 2mm sizes.

I will admit though that I did the regimental flags on the 2mm WSS that I painted – tried to choose those that had the most easily painted colours at 2mm. I won't say that I was entirely successful though, almost anything beyond a single, simple device is difficult to make credible on 2mm.

Looking at the offerings of a number of the published flags, a fair number of Scots regiments show a white flag for the colonel and, usually, blue flags for the others. This is different to the English model described above where the flags were usually the same as the regiments facing colour. Instinctively this seems strange, but it shouldn't do as England and Scotland were separate countries with their own military establishments with only a monarch (and a language) in common.

I've often thought that the Scottish white colonels' colours were influenced by continental practice, given that many Scottish officers had considerable experience in the Dutch and other armies where this arrangement was common.

Given that so much is unknown, I think that provided you broadly follow the general rules (i.e. plain colour in facing colour with devices or family badge from the Colonel's coat of arms, add a large white edged red cross usually retaining said badge for the Lt. Col. and further adding a coloured wavy pile (flame) in the upper canton for the Major) it should be very hard for people to criticise your results.

BTW- French infantry 1703-1749- THREE flags per Bn.