"Flags of British 2nd battalions" Topic

If the regiment had two flags then I assume that the first battalion carried them both. What about the 2nd battalion in the regiment? As an aside, I collect 1/72 plastics and it is maddening when sets come with only one flag bearer or sometimes none.

Each Bn. would carry their own two colours.
The 2nd Bns. colours were the same and could sometimes be differenced with a '2ND BN'
notation or a small flame in the corner.

2nd bn. 1st Ft.

Yes, that heraldic flame thingy!

They were doing this as long ago as the 1740s, altho' fewer regiments had second battalions then.

That's interesting from an ECW perspective. In the 17th century the Major's company of an English regiment carried a flag (usually plain) with the St George cross in a canton and a descending flame or 'pile wavy'. In those days each company had their own flag.

Yes Timbo, that sounds about right. The Major would be the second most senior officer in the regiment so his company would also be the second next senior company. The pile wavy seems to have survived as a marker of 2nd in seniority.

It is worth remembering that the standards served a purpose in the battle line beyond decoration and esprit de corps. So any battalion beyond first still needed that rallying point in action (and they saw plenty of that!)

and remember…King's to the right, Regt to the left…unless Guards of course, when the…..oh forget it ……

Does anyone know what the colour of the 3rd Battalion, 27th Inniskilling Foot, would look like? They served in the 4th Division in the Peninsula War.

GdeP

Thanks for posting the image. Where did you find it? Does anyone sell these flags? A great way to have variety amongst my units.

Try looking here
link

MG

Does anyone know what the colour of the 3rd Battalion, 27th Inniskilling Foot, would look like? They served in the 4th Division in the Peninsula War.

GdeP

The 3rd Battalion was only established in 1805 along with a reactivated 2nd Battalion, which had been disbanded in 1803.

The 3rd Battalion wouldn't have had any battle honours to display on their colours as they hadn't earned any so they could (I say 'could' as there is no evidence what they looked like as far as I know)have looked like what I have done below. Using the illustrations from the Flags of the Napoleonic Wars site as a basis, I have made up a couple of examples to show how they may have looked. A bit of a liberty take I know, But it was fun doing it.

Notice the cartouche is the correct size and wreath shouldn't be sprawled all over the colour like they are on wargames flags and many noted illustrations.

I have many picturs of extant examples and all the wreaths are small and barely fall outside the central cross on the kings colour and come nowhere near the canton on the regimental colour.

Why oh why these mistakes occur perplexes me and it still goes on! I wonder what would happen if a company like Victrix or Perry produced eagle-bearers with oversized eagles atop the staff or the embroidery out of proportion on the Tricolore?

I actually like oversized flags :-)

Does anyone know when and why the corner-to-corner red cross was added to the Union flag?

Dibble does it again! I like that for the 3/27 in Spain.

I also enjoyed seeing your information from years ago in the Drums thread, and see that I have some touch-up to do on the drums of the 9th Foot.

GdeP

4th Cuirassiers

I actually like oversized flags :-)

Does anyone know when and why the corner-to-corner red cross was added to the Union flag?

As wiki says:

"The present design of the Union Flag dates from a Royal proclamation following the union of Great Britain and Ireland in 1801. The flag combines aspects of three older national flags: the red cross of St George of the Kingdom of England, the white saltire of St Andrew for Scotland (which two were united in the first Union Flag), and the red saltire of St Patrick to represent Ireland."

I actually like oversized flags :-)

And there's me thinking people strive for accuracy?

Paul:)

The over-sized central decoration on the colours dates from later on in the 19th Century, when a book of illustrations was produced which enlarged the central device in order to make it easier to see. The author did make this clear, but subsequent authors have either not read that part of the book, or chosen to overlook it.

Yes! There was a very interesting website that explained the reason for the overlarge devices. I do believe that I posted a TMP link to it some years ago so here it is again.

link

and I now guarantee that we will see this issue raised again within three years max.

This is the snag. There is such a wealth of info out there, on the is web thingy. It may be well resourced or not, but the real question is …..is it accessible?

I have seen so many marvellous TMP discussions (some a bit heated) all packed with references and research. But lost to posterity within a week.

My prediction? Search engines ten years from now will be far more "intelligent". My only worry is that they become self aware and sci-fi battles are no longer fought on a table top (only kidding, my PC would slaughter me)

Flags too big, designs too big and both too small (no, last does not happen). I accept that the folk who make such have to consider commercial…er….considerations! Who will buy them in quantity? War gamers! So they can be seen in a dimly lit marquee in a North Yorkshire midwinter. Not collectors who want scale accuracy.

I want GMB quality flags, that are the size they should be for 28mm, but just love the quality of what they do actually do….for "35mm figs" in practice.

Enjoyed reading elsewhere that AB 15mm figs, recently accepted as 18mm, are truly more like 20mm in latest releases. You try fitting them into a coach at 1/100 scale as claimed! Believe me, I know……….pics to follow

Very interesting, I don't like oversized colours as well as oversized heads and hands – on the other hand – I don't liked undersized muskets and cartridge pouches

I want GMB quality flags, that are the size they should be for 28mm, but just love the quality of what they do actually do….for "35mm figs" in practice.

Grahame at GMB will re-size his flags to fit your needs. I just contacted him to ask about re-sizing some 15mm flags to fit my 2nd gen Minifigs (which are on the small side compared to current 18mm ranges)