| Tango01 | 13 Sep 2016 2:53 p.m. PST |
"Few will say it, but the facts are indisputable: America's war in Afghanistan has failed. There comes a time when persisting in a lost cause amounts to foolishness, indeed irresponsibility. That time has arrived. Washington's minimal goals were to vanquish the Taliban, root out Al Qaeda and build a stable, effective government whose army and police would eventually fight the Taliban independently and successfully while maintaining law and order across the land. These objectives have not been meet…"
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 Legion 4  | 13 Sep 2016 2:58 p.m. PST |
A'stan is a lost cause. And much if not all of that rests on their shoulders. Let them fight it out to the death. Or the last man standing. And keep a lot of air and orbital assets to make sure they don't decide to get some Pak Nucs and use them on the West. Or any other lunatic plan the Taliban, AQ, Daesh, etc., etc., … |
| Great War Ace | 13 Sep 2016 4:11 p.m. PST |
Why did I know this back in 2003? I knew it in my cells. The fighting, the religious bickering and feuding, are just too ancient. No Western intervention can change any of that. We don't understand their animosities. They make no sense to our side. So we can't engage our friends there in dialogue about democracy and entering the 21st century, etc. We get blank stares or outright scorn at our presumption. Once Bin Laden was chased out of Astan, we should have pulled everything but an adequate security force nearby to operate in OUR interests, period. |
 miniMo | 13 Sep 2016 4:41 p.m. PST |
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| Charlie 12 | 13 Sep 2016 7:04 p.m. PST |
Afghanistan is a mess. Always has been, always will be. At least until they decide to join the rest of the world in the 21st century. |
| Mako11 | 13 Sep 2016 7:45 p.m. PST |
For which side? Seems to me the Taliban are on a roll, and unlike them, others aren't as committed to the cause. |
| mandt2 | 13 Sep 2016 9:27 p.m. PST |
Seems to me the Taliban are on a roll, and unlike them, others aren't as committed to the cause. True. But ask yourself these questions. What would military victory in Afghanistan look like to us? How much money are you willing to pay for it? How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice for it? Not just KIA, but disabled, widows, and children of the dead and disabled. How many Afghan civilians are you willing to kill for it? When was the last time we actually "won" one of these conflicts? |
 piper909 | 13 Sep 2016 10:39 p.m. PST |
Outside intervention in Afghanistan has never ended well (nor in many other places). Foreigners serve to unite natives against them to a degree, provide propaganda value for insurgents, distract from tackling internal reforms, and breed a dependency on the part of the collaborators and puppet governments who serve foreign interests there. |
| Pan Marek | 14 Sep 2016 5:54 a.m. PST |
Americans always seem to forget our own War of Independence. |
| Legion 4 | 14 Sep 2016 8:22 a.m. PST |
Afghanistan is a mess. Always has been, always will be. At least until they decide to join the rest of the world in the 21st century.
Bingo !  mandt2 13 Sep 2016 9:27 p.m. PST Seems to me the Taliban are on a roll, and unlike them, others aren't as committed to the cause. True. But ask yourself these questions. What would military victory in Afghanistan look like to us? The islamists would still be running amok. The ANA/ANP can't "contain" or defeat, the Taliban, AQ and now Deash. Again to quote C12, "At least until they decide to join the rest of the world in the 21st century." And that is not going to happen anytime soon, if at all. How much money are you willing to pay for it? At list point – 0 … Too much has been "wasted" already … How many American lives are you willing to sacrifice for it? Not just KIA, but disabled, widows, and children of the dead and disabled. Again … at this point 0 … Too much has been lost already. With little to show for it … sadly … How many Afghan civilians are you willing to kill for it? Ask the Taliban, AQ and Daesh … they kill many, many more than the US. The figure I have heard quoted often was 97% of all moslems killed are by other molsems in these conflicts. When was the last time we actually "won" one of these conflicts? Yes, the entire paradigm of "victory"/wining seems to have little relevance in modern insurgent warfare. Especially when islamists are involved. So basically I generally agree with what you are saying. Americans always seem to forget our own War of Independence.
To a point, now the boot is on the other foot, so to speak. The US are now "the Redcoats" … |
| Fatman | 14 Sep 2016 9:00 a.m. PST |
the words Victory and Afghanistan do not belong in the same sentence Fatman |
| VVV reply | 14 Sep 2016 9:13 a.m. PST |
We don't understand their animosities. They make no sense to our side. Of course they do to some people – basically people who have studied and been in Afghanistan. Let us not forget the Taliban were kicked out of Afghanistan for 5 years with local Afghans and US airpower. THen the West tried to create a unified country. A better model is a feudal kingdom with local barons, supervised by a central government. To a point, now the boot is on the other foot, so to speak. The US are now "the Redcoats" … A better analogy is to imagine your county invaded by wealthy, degenerate, cannibals, who despise you. That is how Westerners look, to Afghans. |
| Weasel | 14 Sep 2016 10:36 a.m. PST |
If we don't understand the people we're supposed to be helping, how can we actually help them? |
| Mako11 | 14 Sep 2016 10:46 a.m. PST |
The answer is zero, for the above. Sadly, we've failed to learn from military history, again and again. When your enemies are allowed to sit back in "safe havens", in an adjoining country, relatively untouched, and to use that as a base of operations for attacks in the other one, it's virtually impossible to win. Should have learned that after Korea and Vietnam. |
| Steve Wilcox | 14 Sep 2016 11:24 a.m. PST |
When your enemies are allowed to sit back in "safe havens", in an adjoining country, relatively untouched, and to use that as a base of operations for attacks in the other one, it's virtually impossible to win. Although the US is not an adjoining country like Pakistan, I would suspect some Afghans view the continental US in a similar way. |
| Porthos | 14 Sep 2016 11:48 a.m. PST |
I wonder if anyone ever read about the wars of Alexander the Great. What now is called Afghanistan was one of the very few regions he could not defeat, and other opponents felt the same… |
| Hafen von Schlockenberg | 14 Sep 2016 12:45 p.m. PST |
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| piper909 | 14 Sep 2016 12:52 p.m. PST |
What's the great cynical, pragmatic line from "The Man Who would Be King"? "Let them go back to playing stick ball with one another's heads, and pissing on their neighbors." |
| Hafen von Schlockenberg | 14 Sep 2016 1:09 p.m. PST |
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| Legion 4 | 14 Sep 2016 3:44 p.m. PST |
A better analogy is to imagine your county invaded by wealthy, degenerate, cannibals, who despise you. That is how Westerners look, to Afghans.
Hell … I thought Canada believed that about us !  |
| Rod I Robertson | 14 Sep 2016 3:59 p.m. PST |
Legion 4: Americans are too fat, are too loaded with cholesterol and are rife with artificial hormones and antibiotics. Canadian cannibals prefer free-range humans like Icelanders and Syrian refugees. Lip smacking good! Cheers and Bon Appetite!
Rod Red-meat Robertson |
| Legion 4 | 14 Sep 2016 4:52 p.m. PST |
Who you call'n Fat, Pilgrim !!!? |
| Steve Wilcox | 14 Sep 2016 5:18 p.m. PST |
You're not fat, you're big-boned, Legion 4! :) |
| Legion 4 | 15 Sep 2016 7:07 a.m. PST |
Well yeah … Like a Wooly Mammoth !  |
| Steve Wilcox | 15 Sep 2016 10:09 a.m. PST |
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| Tango01 | 15 Sep 2016 10:51 a.m. PST |
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| VVV reply | 15 Sep 2016 2:19 p.m. PST |
By most measures the United States has the most powerful military in the world, with the second largest active army and a navy that rules the waves.Another less flattering set of measurements has now been published, suggesting that America's troops are larger than they once were. Pentagon data obtained by the Military Times media group shows that almost 8 per cent of troops are overweight, up from 1.6 per cent in 2001. The UK army may be getting ‘too fat to fight', failing basic fitness tests, with more than 22,000 overweight and at risk of serious health problems, according to recently released Ministry of Defence figures. |
| Legion 4 | 15 Sep 2016 8:11 p.m. PST |
Hey !!!! I'm not in the Army anymore !!!! I can be fat … now !!!! But … TMP link |
| VVV reply | 16 Sep 2016 7:50 a.m. PST |
Yep it makes perfect sense, the population grows fatter, so will the armed forces. |
| Legion 4 | 16 Sep 2016 8:06 a.m. PST |
Another reason many in the world hate the USA. Many can't get enough food … While We all eat too much ! And even have diet dog food for are canines !!!!! |
| Mithmee | 16 Sep 2016 12:12 p.m. PST |
America's war in Afghanistan has failed. Well when you do not fight to win you will lose. |
| Charlie 12 | 16 Sep 2016 1:40 p.m. PST |
Well when you do not fight to win you will lose. Simplistic and naive. |
| Mithmee | 16 Sep 2016 11:13 p.m. PST |
Which we have been doing since the 1960's. Yes you do certain things you can end up winning the war. Just look at: 2nd Boer War
Italians in Libya There are many other instances. War is not nice or clean. Britain could have not done what they did in South Africa against the Boers and they would have been fighting for years. Instead they got nasty and did things and shorting the War. It was the same in Libya with the Italians. You want to end a War make it so that your enemy does not want to fight anymore. if you pussy foot around you will be fighting for longer than you need to and you will end up losing. |
