"I have Bolt Action 2 - any questions?" Topic

Received my Bolt Action 2nd edition hardcover yesterday and read through it. There's lot and lots and lots of changes, many very very subtle. If you have any questions about a particular rule change or addition or anything, ask away and I'll try my best to answer 'em!

Can you split groups off from a squad (e.g LMG) or is it still not possible to reflect small unit tactics?

@David Manley, no, but it is addressed now, as a design note, with the intention that full size squads should be taken (in fact there is now a rule bonus for taking full size squads; a full size squad can re-roll failed order tests); but to absolutely break squads down into multiple units or field reduced strength squads as appropriate for your game or scenario. The core rules are very much written for "pick up and play" games with little ambiguity, but included are several rules appendices for scenarios and friendly games, including breaking units apart across multiple transports, large games, night fighting, etc. Alessio seems to have written the rulebook as "here's the rules, straightforward, unambiguous, for pick up and play or tournaments games… and then here's the appendices, for making scenarios and friendly games, break the rules as you please."

Has he eliminated the smoke from the German 50mm mortar? Or should I say, has he eliminated smoke rounds from all small mortars that did not have them?

What changes have been made to the close assault rules?

Some of my regulars find the "winner takes all" nature of these a bit too overpowering.

@DColtman

The things that stood out for me are:

1. Combat is simultaneous if the attacker crosses rough ground OR is attacking the defender over an obstacle – thereby making it much more difficult to assault people in cover. (previously simultaneous was only when attacking across an obstacle)

2. All models only have 1 attack, period. NO MORE 2 and 3 attack per model monstrosities!! Assault weapons give models Tough Fighter. Cavalry gives models Tough Fighter. Tough Fighter is totally different now. You may get an extra attack ONLY if your first attack hit.
Example, ten Commandos with Tough Fighter attack in close quarters, 1 attack per man, and they get say 5 hits. Then those 5's are rolled again, generating 2 more, for a total of 7.

Relating to close combat, fully enclosed vehicles that shoot pintle-mounted weapons now count as open-topped until the end of the round! So no more MG-covered tanks rolling thru infantry without repercussions, as now the lowliest infantryman with a grenade can pop a tank if that tank unbuttons to fire pintle mounted weapons!

I'd look closer but I am at work now and I am going from what I remember reading (and rereading!)

@79thPA

Unknown, as the core rules don't specify specific mortars (only the general rules). We know that the German army book is the only one being redone, so perhaps the 50mm Light Mortar in there will disallow smoke rounds (and it wouldn't hurt to send him a message to remind him!)

The basic rules (1st ed) state that all mortars may fire smoke. I was wondering if it still said that.

The basic rules (1st ed) state that all mortars may fire smoke. I was wondering if it still said that.

Just curious, is this a deal breaker for you?

The basic rules (1st ed) state that all mortars may fire smoke. I was wondering if it still said that.

If you are not a tournament player, I suspect you can simply agree to all sorts of historical amendments just like the one you mention.

No, a house rule easily solves it. It is more of an issue of being 100% wrong and, considering that a number of people don't mine much further than the rule book, it is an error that should be corrected. The author told me that he was going to correct the matter; I was simply wondering if it had been done.

I would be curious if still a game of progressive pins wins. I understand the concept, and agree in theory of the tactic but I think it can really drag a game down if that is the only tactic that your opponent focuses on.

@Rogues1, I have no idea what you mean. Certainly suppressing your enemy is a valid tactic of modern warfare for the last one hundred years.

Is there a specific rule or instance of rules you are asking about in relation to pins?

Pins do not count against a rally roll making it much easier to regroup and reorganize. Pinning still hurts but its not the end.

Judge, I agree, I think Big Red understood the essence of my question (better than I did). If you get too many pins down it was almost impossible to rally. If they made that change I think it will be a lot more realistic for me. Thanks I appreciate the answer Big Red.

Two improvements regarding close combat then – thanks.

One other Q – some of my guys reckoned that pins should impede close combat directly rather than just impeding defensive fire – any change on that front?

@Rogues1 ah yes sorry I misread what you said. Additionally, rolling two 1's on your command check removes additional pins for a normal order; and if you stay Down at the end of a turn you remove D3 pins now! (and also Down is now a much more realistic -2 to hit!)

"Two improvements regarding close combat then – thanks.

One other Q – some of my guys reckoned that pins should impede close combat directly rather than just impeding defensive fire – any change on that front?"
I also wanna know about massive pins and being attacked. It was, if in close combat, you remove all pins (I believe). So you could pin the hell out of a unit, then go into H2H & suddenly, they are no longer pinned. That's just wrong. I mean, that's what you do. Pin em, suppress em, attack em!
Peter

Oh, and THANKS for taking all these questions!
Peter
board2deathterrain.com

Can a vehicle and a friendly infantry unit following close behind it advance simultaneously now, so that the infantry can claim that they are being shielded by the vehicle?

@Ceterman pins affect reaction fire; but do not affect close quarters firefight as there is still no roll to-hit. Is that what you're asking?

@coopman Certainly, an officer can now allocate multiple order dice to units within his command range (6" for 2LT/1LT, 12" for Captain/Major)

@79thPA the starter lists in the new rulebook are very abbreviated; they seem to cover only the units available in the retail army boxes (so you can get to playing right away) plus a few extra units. For example the German starter list only lists the 8 cm Granatwerfer 34 as it is the one in the Grenadiers and Fallschirmjager army boxes. So we do not know if the 5 cm Granatwerfer 36 has specifically been disallowed the option. I will check shortly and see if the verbage on smoke from mortars might have been changed to "most" mortars instead of "all"

You no longer lose pins in close combat, they do not effect the roll to hit though.

@ceterman I just re-read the close quarters rules and there is no mention of removing pins during a close quarters fight.

@Captain Cook pins DO affect your chances of hitting during reaction fire.

Ambush may be taken against surprise charges as well.

Judge, No. First version says, after reactive fire, if you survive, you close into close combat & both target & attacker remove ALL pins. It then says something about adrenaline kicking in…
I just don't think that is right. Granted, being shot at by a multi-pinned unit should not cause you too much damage, but then, if all pins are removed, you are fighting a new, & probably much better unit than the one you first charged. One BAD die roll & you are done. Did I explain that better?!
Thanks!

Okay, Judge! I was typing (I guess) when you answered!
Again, Thanks for all your time here!
Peter
board2deathterrain.com

@Ceterman no worries! The rules even state:
"Also note that pin markers have no effect in close quarters and are ignored for the duration of the fight."
There's no removal after that; so if you had 3 pins going in, you have 3 pins afterwards (assuming you survived!)

I can guess the answer will be no, does it have an index?

An index! You're mad :)

That's a no then :)

JD, I hope you'll approve of my posting this change list for 2nd ed. here to the thread, it was emailed to me from a friend who said it comes from the "FaceBook Bolt Action group that is also associated with Rubicon Models". I can't confirm this, but perhaps it can serve as an additional template for comparison purposes?
- suggests 25mm bases.
- Multiple models on one bases you "imagine" a 25mm bases around them.
- Squads bought and still at full strength re-roll order tests.
- Rally ignores pins to pass order.
- Double 1 on order check removes 1+d6 pins instead of 1.
- Down is -2 to hit.
- Staying down over the turns loses d3 pins
- If you're on ambush at the end of the turn, you can choose to leave it on ambush or on a 4+ you can change it to a fire order, otherwise the dice goes back in the bag.
- You can fire over your own models as the 1" bubble is above the models as well as around.
- Dense terrain. Area terrain that you can't draw LOS through and give soft or hard cover if you're in it.
- Ambush against any type of enemy movement.
- Assault rifle range to 18".
- LMG/MMG get +1 shot.
- LMG gets 36" range.
- Medium/heavy mortar minimum range 12".
- Minimum and maximum range for medium/heavy howitzers indirect fire increased.
- Infantry flamethrowers get +1 pen.
- Vehicle flamethrowers have hits reduced to d6+1.
- Assault weapon gives tough fighter.
- Fixed weapons can pivot for -1 to hit on an advance.
- Flamethrowers roll to hit ignoring cover and down, but taking minus to hits for movement, long range, pins and small team.
- Flamethrowers run out of fuel on a 1.
- HE now uses templates! If shot misses, no scatter. If hits must cover most amount of models it can. Possible to hit multiple units.
- Reverts back to d6 system to determine hits in buildings.
- Inexperienced units cannot use spotters!
- Spotters always count as down.
- Spotters can come on the board as reserve/first wave at the same time as weapon they are spotting for.
- Shaped charge loses the -1 to hit.
- Multiple barrage measures 6" from template and not squads to see if other units are hit. Can fire smoke.
- Must nominate a loader for squad based team weapon for the game. Cannot be NCO.
- Out of range weapons for defensive fire count as shooting at long range.
- Don't lose pins after combat.
- Captain and major bonus morale range increased to 12".
- Snap to it. Officer can draw extra dice out of the bag for units with their morale bonus range. Those units then carry out their order as normal.
- Medics can't attack or claim objectives.
- FAO cannot ambush.
- Artillery scatters 3d6" on a 1.
- Uses template for a heavy howitzer if it hits a unit.
- Air strikes are stopped if 3 hits scored on plane.
- Most plane types use templates now.
- Flak doesn't use up ambush or orders.
- Cavalry no longer is 3 attacks, just tough fighter.
- Cavalry cannot recce if they have had an order that turn.
- Fanatic cannot be pinned out of the game.
- Motorbikes are hit in combat as if they were normal infantry.
- Motorbikes cannot recce if they have already had an order that turn.
- Sniper minimum range of 12". Loses the +1 to hit, but no longer take any penalties for anything other than pins and last man. Can fire normal small arms on an advance.
- Tough fighters is no longer 2 attacks. 1 attack and roll an additional dice for every hit you get (only the first time!).
- Artillery measurements from/to the breach.
- Artillery can be pivoted 360 for a -1 to hit on an advance.
- Turntable/platform has 360 fire arc.
- Gun shield give you +1 to your would roll (inexp 4+, regular 5+ and vet 6+). HE, snipers snd flamethrower ignores this.
- You have until the end of the game to re-crew a gun.
- Smoke is soft cover and dense terrain.
- All measurements for vehicles from the hull.
- Vehicles only reverse on failed order if enemy is visible in front arc.
- Vehicles can be ordered to go down (no -2 to hit though!).
- Firing pintle mounted weapons make them open topped for that turn.
- HE templates placed in centre of vehicle. If HE clips only, it hits front armour.
- Soft skins roll on the vehicle damage table if damaged (not the superficial).
- If stunned, immobilised or on fire roll a further dice. On a 4+ the turret is jammed in the direction of the incoming fire.
- Rally order works inside vehicle!
- Declare what units are in what vehicles before the game starts. Officers moral works for order check to come on.
- Cannot recce vehicles if they have already had an order that turn.
- Command vehicle does not give snap too rule.
- Can "make an opening" in a building of the unit is deployed in it at the start of a game. Counts as a window.
- Buildings only give +1 to protect like gun shields.
- HE doesn't take minus to hit for cover against units in buildings.
- 10 HE hits brings down a building. Can fire on empty buildings.
- 12 missions. 6 battle scenarios and 6 attacker-defender.
- Can deploy units in buildings that straddle deployment zones.

That is pretty comprehensive FlyXWire, I cannot recall any more changes off the top of my head.

Except, Germany now has Squad Training on a 2+ and now Hitler'z Buzzsaw rule, ALL machine guns are +1 dice, infantry and vehicle.

With templates now in play, how do you measure the 1" gap between figures, from the edge of the figure base or the head of the figure?

@FlyXWire
thanks for the list of rule changes.
seems like there is no reason to take Stiner in my mid-war list anymore.

No change in the -1 to hit for shooting using inexperienced troops? That always seemed to be a deal-breaker for me.

@Captain Cook base to base, but they specifically, to prevent absurd micromeasurements, say that an HE 1" will always be able to touch two models that are 1" apart. This removes about 99% of any theoretical problems.

The figure's base itself is what gets hit. In the case of multibased models, you would "imagine" each figure is on a 25mm base; in practice it will almost never come up as an issue especially due to the aforementioned killing of micromeasurements, and the benefits now are legion. No more Napoleonic Bolt Action!

Thank you JD, wondered how the 1" template would work if it was base to base.

The one question that a friend of mine had when we had brief looks at the book that could end up being a potential abusive situation that will need to be FAQed one way or the other is whether "Snap to it Men!" can also effect another officer that's in range, allowing a daisy chain of the rule.

@Lordgoober, I wouldn't think that would need to be FAQed – how many points is one side investing in an LT _and_ a Captain or Major? If their whole army is clumped up enough to double activate two officers and have it be meaningful, go right ahead.

If it's a big enough game that there's two reinforced platoons with a 2LT or 1LT, then again, you've centered all your morale-boosting command to within 6" of each other. and a 2LT is only 1 other activation… so you'd need to activate a 1LT and chain 2… seems like a lot of trouble for very little benefit, if at all, to be honest.