"Vehicle Specs and rules where do we stop?" Topic

I have been Proof reading our latest 1980 European lists. This is one part of the system we are still improving.

The interesting thing is how much do we differentiate the impacts of an auto loader. They tend to make a tank more vulnerable and damage have diffrent effects. However having more plausible tank damage makes the game more complex but does add to the relationship with the real world.

My opinion is that we add these things as optional rules for the dedicated. For the average Maneouver Group player the decision range is already interesting enough.
You opinions would be appreciated.

I'm in the school that a hit on a vehicle either makes it combat ineffective or not, wither through damage to systems or crew morale. Maybe can stretch to differentiate between main gun and secondary gun damage. Other than that, it's just fiddly details that add complexity and take up game time.

I came to appreciate the benefits of automatic loading when I was taking part in manual Sea Wolf loading drills on the bow of HMS Hermione back in 1990 and we were taking green seas over the front end (and the crew) on a regular basis!

Ben King's fast play naval rules had a nice system. Each ship had 4 rows of damage boxes. When you got to the end of each row, you lost a little speed and some firepower.

The logic was that the accumulated damage might have done a lot of things – power, hydraulics, crew, eleveators – that led to the loss.

This simple mechanic eliminated the need for a "hit location" process.

Unless I can do something about it having to track individual ship systems is just an accounting chore. So yes, make it optional.

Depends on who I am playing.

If I am a tank commander, then I'll want to know exactly what is wrong and whether it can be fixed.

If I am a company commander, then I'll probably just need to know whether tank 3 is operational or not.

Weasel has it – it depends on the level of the game.

Only game I remember really going into that kind of detail was the Twilight 2000 RPG, and even they dropped it in the second edition of the game.

Don't even mention Tractics……

To keep the game playing (assuming there will be many models on the table), stick to answering the question- Is the vehicle still in the fight? (as mentioned earlier). The "gee-whiz" info of what made it inactive is only relative at the lowest levels when there may be only 1-2 on the table per side. Have to ask the question, "Does the reason it is no longer effective really matter in a game setting?"

I always wondered why noone made a tank game with Battletech style damage charts and tracks.. then I remembered trying to play Battletech with more than 4 guys on each side.

Weasel,
FASA certainly tried. It was the Centurion game in their Renegade Legion universe. Great idea, but not really a great game.
BWW

Centurion is a pretty good game, though having all the different damage templates to chew through armor is annoying. You could still do a mixed company (tank platoon and 2 APC platoons) per side in a reasonable time. Excellent Air/Arty/Infantry/Armor integration.

In a naval game, critical hits are important. Rudder/control, engines, magazine, and turrets (assuming WW2). Not to mention fire or flooding, which will quickly distract the crew from fighting the enemy outside the ship in favor of fighting the enemy inside the ship.

But since Ushcha is asking, I think he's talking about ground combat and just accidentally dropped this thread into Modern Naval.

The most detail I like for lots of tanks on the table is fine/immobilized/very obviously dead. Immobilized is more of a "got stuck on terrain" issue than a combat damage result. Yes, you might have a tank immobilized as a result of combat damage, but the enemy will keep shooting at that tank until it's burning.

@Weasel – Car Wars had an official tanks variant that appeared in Dragon magazine. I think it made it in as part of the Deluxe version of the game too, if you really want to try that!

Avalon Hill's Tobruk covered the "what exactly did that last hit damage" question. It also had hit charts for each of the armored vehicles in the game that covered the damage done based on the direction of the hit, a roll of the dice, and the size of the incoming round.