"Rule changes with TSATF" Topic

Hello, i was wondering what personal significant rule changes your wargaming groups have made in regards when playing TSATF? Thanks

None. It is fine as is.

I don't track wounds on Natives. They are all just out of action.
I don't base Mass native Infantry on individual bases.

I have never used the following rules:

1) Wounded native on the ground gets an attack.

2) Torturing prisoners.

3) Hidden CInC. Almost always a mounted figure on both sides.

4) Along the same lines CInC loss triggering Major Morale check.

Vcarter in regards to number one. Can you explain furtherr?

There's a rule that if an empire soldier gets within a certain distance of a wounded native, the native gets an attack.

We've played it both ways. It's a nuisance for the empire, you treat wounded natives like an unexploded bomb and go around him, but it can be fun for the natives.

Biggest change is using half size units.

Have two units move on their color card
Speeds up play and gives a better tactical decision we feel
But we dont do this for the fire phase

The reason for the "need" for most rules changes is having too many units on the table.

What is the "right" number of units for a TSATF game?

- Ix

As many as you want.
Just know that HUGE battles come with a price.

Our AWI games give each player a maximum of 3 units. The amazing thing is that you now CARE about your units. You are now loathe to sacrifice one.
And the so-called "tedious" melee system now unfolds with bated breath.

How many players in your AWI games?

The problem I've always had with TSATF is that the one-at-at-a-time turn sequence is bog slow in large multi-player convention games, and most of one's time is spent watching somebody else do something. What's the best size of game to avoid this problem? There must be a threshold, even a rough approximation.

The protracted dicing contests in close combat are also slow, but fun.

- Ix

Winston knows his TSATF, and makes some good points. The guidelines in the rulebook (4 infantry, 2 cavalry, 1 artillery) are actually pretty good for most games. You could easily split that up into 2-4 commands (e.g. 2 infantry, 1 cavalry, 1 CiC/artillery) if you wanted to, and the game would play better for it.

One trick to speed up play is to keep turning over cards until you get to the opposite color – the active side then moves as many units as their cards turned over. For example, it's red's turn, and you keep flipping cards until you get a black card. You turn over 3 red cards before hitting a black card, so red gets to move 3 units, then it's black's turn to see how many of its cards are turned over before hitting a red, etc.

Many games can also be run in semi-independent "zones" that each have their own decks, if they are far enough away that interaction is unlikely.

You can also let every player on the phasing side activate one of their units on the turn of a card. I generally avoid TSATF type games at cons because I have been burned too many time by GM's who have broken the rules and turned the game into a slow and agonizing death for the participants.

If the "huge" convention games are as unmanageable as you say, may I be so bold as to suggest that the GM is incompetent? A convention is the worst place for a monster TSATF game. You have newbies and people who heard about TSATF and want to try it.
I have played games with 20 units per side, and they do drag.
All suggestions to speed it up are valid.
But I prefer to play it as is. And I think you catch the flavor of the game much better with small "brigades".

My serious changes:
Wounded natives are dead natives. No ankle biting. In fact I don't remember seeing that rule in the current 20th anniversary edition. But "regulars" MUST take care of their wounded. It is a good way for the natives to put a crack in the "invincible" regular morale.

Unless the scenario requires it, you shoot at units. Shooting an area gets too much resistance from my group. We have two or three GMs and each runs things slightly different.

When turning cards, the GM should keep an eye on the action. If the current move will not affect others, peek at the next card(s). Flip them if they speed things up.

Movement trays to start. In fact, I pass players their figures and units on trays. Amazingly, when I made them from craft store plywood plaques and added added 1/4" balsa railings, they held 10 figures across on my basing scheme.

Variable unit sizes. I use many different " true 25mm", or close to it, manufacturers for my true colonial games. I bought several bags of Foundry Afghan Regulars at a convention. Some had 17 in that uniform, some had 22…. Why should Hamid and Shere Khan sit out the battle?
If you play with more modern figures, Perry comes in blisters of 6. That is not a good size for units of 20. so, unit size is 18 or 24. Or 21 with command packs. If you get 8 in a pack, the math is hardly better. Just be careful with this.

I get a kick out of the people who ask TMP for a dispensation on how they play. I see it as a guide. No hard and fast rulings. If you enjoy it more with half size units, go ahead. If you want to use GASLIGHT for melee resolution in large games, go ahead. No need for everyone in the world to play it the same. I played in one tournament back in the 80s. Seven British players and me, the lone Zulu. I don't think TSATF is a suitable tournament game, even though you can find points cost. . It would sap the fun, I think. If you want to have min max tournaments, play games that were designed that way.

I never met Larry, to my sorrow, but his advice was always "If you are having fun, you are doing it right."

How many players in our games? Usually 6, and they are all familiar with the rules. A game lasts about 3 hours on a 9' x 5' ping pong table.

And if you want a huge game, play "800 Fighting Englishmen" instead. It's an official TSATF game designed for big battles.

Winston, CATenwold and 79thPA are correct in their TSATF experiences with all sized battles.

There needs to be someone in charge, i.e. a GM, especially where card-turning is concerned. And where does it say, "Everyone just sit, stare and wait until their card is pulled." That's a direct quote from Dad, btw. Keep the cards going, as above posters have said, or come up with a way that works for you and your group. The games will move forward, believe me, many times at a break-neck speed!

I have NEVER been in a TSATF game that dragged or was boring. And I've played in many, many a game over the years (not just with Dad, George Sr., Ed and the Jackson Gamers) and they didn't last more than 3-4 hours. When armies kept growing and gamers whined about "too slow", "not exciting", "takes too much time", Dad designed 800FE.

My point is TSATF and 800FE are not carved in stone, and neither are other rules for that matter. Our hobby always needs new and innovative rules so isn't it up to us gamers to adapt and improvise when we can? When you think about it, fun and friendship, coupled with a good wargame, is many times as good as it gets in our hobby…….

When we take casualties from shooting:
Aces are officers, otherwise
Face cards- shooter chooses casualties
Number cards- target chooses casualties

I also have a house rule for mounted troops.

If they become a casualty, I give an extra roll to determine if the horse and/or rider takes the hit.

It has two major effects.

1) It gives mounted officers a saving throw when the only effect is they have a horse shot out from under them (very Hollywood).

2) Add to the tension when a rider is left without a horse on the face of charging natives.

@VCarter – I've done the same. A simple addition and it adds some nice flavor to the game. Playing the Zulu War it doesn't come up all that often, but when it does …

I'll have to try that one too.
But just for officers.
Determine who gets the ace (we also randomize the short straw ace if more than one officer is involved).
Then flip a card. Black = horse. Red = man.
Simple and within the context of present casualty determination.

I have a set of cards from TVAG where you can have 1 to 3 units moving at the same time. It speeds the game. I ran a darkest Africa game at little wars 2016 and it went well. Game was over in 4 hours with 5 players per side. Each player had at least 4 units.

To speed up movement in big games when a card is drawn and a moving side announced I roll a D6 divide by 2 and round down to increase the number of units moving. ie. 6 = 3 units 5 & 4 = 2 unites, etc. Other modifications include costing one half move to mount and dismount. Additionally I may use a movement tray for native mass formations until contact is made. The recent Khartoum game we ran at HMGS-South Hurricon had almost 300 Dervish figures and played to conclusion. I also identify experienced players at the beginning of the game, distribute them between opposing forces and have them help resolve firing and melee portions. I control the cards at all times.