Irish Marine | 08 Sep 2016 8:12 a.m. PST |
I'm in a discussion on Gauss gun/ coil Guns for infantry use. We have been talking about the weapons firing a dart or Flechette round. Now considering batteries and any other components are working correctly and the weapon system works what type of velocity would be looking at for the dart or Flechette to cause damage to personnel or armor. |
Winston Smith | 08 Sep 2016 8:19 a.m. PST |
For infantry use? Sounds like you need a hell of a battery. Even if they invent a battery that powerful, it's probably a one shot. |
whitphoto | 08 Sep 2016 8:34 a.m. PST |
Just use a crank like the old cars… |
Martin Rapier | 08 Sep 2016 8:56 a.m. PST |
The Gauss Rifle was always my weapon of choice in Traveller/Striker – far better than other slug firers, but without the all the hassle of laser and plasma weapons. Striker weapons were all powered by handwavium though. In terms of actual energy required to inflict damage, NATO 7.62mm rounds inflict around 3000 joules of energy (10g round at 833 m/s), 5.56mm inflicts around 1700 joules (4 grams at 940 m/s). So, it depends on how heavy your flechette dart is, but it probably wants to do as much damage at least as 5.56. Say a 4g dart at 1000 m/s?). The Striker gauss rifles were 4mm calibre, so not hugely less than a 5.56 conventional round. |
Extra Crispy | 08 Sep 2016 8:56 a.m. PST |
726 D10 per round As much as you want really. What if it's made of a special material that burns or detonates or "flugles" when it reaches the target? |
SBminisguy | 08 Sep 2016 9:01 a.m. PST |
Here's a video of a homemade Gauss gun using off the shelf components of a "Fry's Electronics" grade. This a cool proof of concept device with a muzzle velocity of around that of a 100mph fast pitch baseball -- but since its not an actual military grade weapon, dang neat for what it does! YouTube link Now imagine an actual weapons development project some years in the future with better battery and capacitor tech, etc. |
nvdoyle | 08 Sep 2016 10:01 a.m. PST |
If you haven't checked out Winchell Chung's Atomic Rockets site, I urge you to do so, post haste! It's about spaceships, but the technology explanations are useful for a lot of things. link Go to conventional weapons, and scroll waaaaaay down to 'Kinetic Kill Weapons'. Railguns, coilguns, all kinds of fun! |
Insomniac | 08 Sep 2016 11:20 a.m. PST |
I remember seeing an air rifle (it was a story in an airgun magazine) wired up with an electro magnetic accellerator (connected to a car battery) for a fired pellet, carried as a sabo in a special carrier. When the pellet exited the barrel it was supersonic and was causing horrendous damage to a cow carcass… … my point is that adding an additional electromagnetic accelerator to an existing weapon would require less battery power for less time to provide good results and a massive velocity. |
Lion in the Stars | 08 Sep 2016 11:53 a.m. PST |
2000 joules of KE at the muzzle is a pretty reasonable benchmark for an infantry weapon. 5.56 NATO does about 1800 joules, 5.45mm Russian does about 1400 joules, 6.5mm Grendel (and Arisaka or Carcano) does about 2600 joules, 7.62mm NATO does about 3400 joules. .338 Lapua is a big beast, pushes about 6500 joules at the muzzle. |
Dynaman8789 | 08 Sep 2016 12:00 p.m. PST |
Does it really get you anything? Gauss weapons will have just as much recoil as a regular gun and depending on the tech assumptions no weight savings at all, perhaps even the reverse. |
Rubber Suit Theatre | 08 Sep 2016 12:31 p.m. PST |
Slightly less recoil – no propellant out the barrel. Reduced signature for the same reason. Still just a slug thrower at the end of the day, though. Doesn't matter how the slug gets up to speed, it's a ballistic object after that. |
John Treadaway | 08 Sep 2016 2:14 p.m. PST |
Very high speed gives a massively flat trajectory. Reduced calibre and fast projectile means less affected by wind. There's a possibility that a smart coil/gauss weapon could both soften the acceleration in the first (micro) seconds maybe reducing some perceived recoil and hold a projectile in magnetic suspension in a barrel, thereby obviating both barrel wear and barrel frictional heating. I figure – if they can get the tech right and the batteries (or 'generator') small and powerful enough – those points would give an advantage over conventional chemical powered slug throwers. John T |
Mobius | 08 Sep 2016 2:36 p.m. PST |
Reduced signature for the same reason. Probably by the time these are in use electromagnetic pulse detectors will be in use also so they will be readily detected like lightning discharges are now. The giant solar panel following the gauss guy would also be a big give away. |
Dynaman8789 | 08 Sep 2016 6:21 p.m. PST |
Plus the largest signature is from the projectile breaking the sound barrier and that is not going to change. I've always found Traveller's gauss weapons a little loopy myself, why use a small flechette when a LARGE flechette is doable. High speed and high mass (granted, you have the recoil to deal with but with power armor stomping around that should not be a problem). |
Skeptic | 08 Sep 2016 7:06 p.m. PST |
You can carry more small flechettes? |
Dynaman8789 | 08 Sep 2016 7:11 p.m. PST |
> You can carry more small flechettes? Not going to get you much when your targets are all armored to some extent. Traveller was a bit fuzzy on armor till Megatraveller was released of course so maybe not such a problem rules wise till then. |
Lion in the Stars | 08 Sep 2016 9:57 p.m. PST |
Flechettes (or rather, fin-stabilized discarding sabots) are pretty good armor penetrators, and a carbon-fiber sabot would be conductive. The problem is actually lethality after they hit. Reduced signature for the same reason. Probably by the time these are in use electromagnetic pulse detectors will be in use also so they will be readily detected like lightning discharges are now. The giant solar panel following the gauss guy would also be a big give away. We had EM detectors during the Vietnam War that were sensitive enough to detect trucks based on their ignition coils. Personally, I'd expect artillery to go railgun first. Better control of launch velocity. Plus, as that monster USNavy railgun shows, you can get crazy range out of a large railgun. Small arms are dependent on some massive innovations in electricity storage density before you get man-portable railguns as the standard infantry weapon. As a light antitank weapon, though, you might have some exciting things to play with. A 5gram slug of Cadmium Telluride at 5000m/s has pretty crazy armor penetration capability before you laser-pump it into a plasma, for example. |