"Late TYW miniatures question" Topic

Would it be appropriate to use Front Rank Monmouth Rebellion rebels for late Thirty Years War (1640s) armies? If so, which armies would they best fit (French, Spanish, Swedish, etc.)? They are in long coats, don't appear to be uniformed, are carrying matchlocks and don't have musket rests. Could Scyth/Pitchfork figures be used for pikemen? If these aren't a good fit in terms of clothing styles, any suggestions on best 28mm figures to use?

Not really….the long coats did not start until late 17th century. For late TYW I guess ECW troops are the best choice. I prefer, Redoubt, Renegade and Bicorne. The latter two ranges come from the same sculptor. These three ranges are rather big miniatures. If you want smaller "true" 28mm I would use Perry

Actually there were noticeable weather pattern differences between the UK and central Europe during the 17th century. The "Little Ice Age" is defined as beginning in the first half of the 17th century, and both Protestant and Catholics at the time blamed each other for God bringing this change of weather pattern on all of them.

The UK has a maritime climate, so technically it is warmer than parts of mainland Europe. So where infantry in the ECW were wearing shorter coats (cost probably influenced this as well), infantry in central Europe were wearing longer coats.

Both Foundry and TAB do TYW ranges that have European troop types in longer coats. But those longer coats of the Monmouth Rebellion were not present as equipment for infantry earlier in the century.

The Front Rank figures are very clearly dressed in late 17th C Clothing, too many details are wrong for them to fit into the TYW period.

You can get a good idea of late TYW dress by looking at the paintings of Pieter Snayers, the Prado have excellent HD photos of the Snayers paintings in their collection
link

Snayers painted the soldiers wearing contemporary fashions rather than the clothing in use at the event depicted in the painting. So the date of the painting is more important than the year it portrays.

Here we have Swedish soldiers at the siege of Brünn 1645 alongside their Transylvanian allies in a near contemporary painting.

The longer coats visible are those worn by cavalrymen and officers who had easier access to better clothing thanks to pay and plunder.

Pieter Meulener depicted these Spanish soldiers in 1651

Here is another soldier depicted by Meulener from the late 1640's/early 1650s

And of course there is this not uncommon style of dress from the TYW that to my knowledge no manufacturer reproduces.

Brno!

Pieter Meulener depicted these Spanish soldiers in 1651…

Look at that cavalry charging pike… tch, tch, tch.

Rocroi perhaps?

Actually the last picture of Daniels is the most relevant. That is what they should look like.

The sashes, feathers and cornet shown in the full painting seem to be orange which would suggest the cavalry are meant to be Dutch so probably some nameless skirmish in the Netherlands.

The state of the clothing varied greatly from campaign to campaign, everyone in rags is no more "correct" than having everyone in perfect uniforms. The raggedness of the French troops in Snayers painting is unique to this painting. He frequently shows the troops in "campaign dress" complete with wear and tear and a mixture of clothing but it never reaches the level of uniform misery shown in the winter retreat from Aire-sur-la-Lys.

Hi LostinSpace,

I don't have much to add to what Philius, Daniel and Travella have already mentioned. I think you're better off with TYW and ECW figures than figures from the 1680s.

If you are looking for comparisons to the later TYW, the artist Phillips Wouvermans is another great source:

Wouvermans is now best known as the painter of "battle scenes", of the type very popular in the 1640s and 1650s. He may not have ever been in a battle, but his paintings give a very good impression of what a direct contemporary considered soldiers in battle to look like.

(One a related point, a big thank you to Daniel S for his posting the link to the Pieter Snayers paintings in the Prado. It is a great shame that, at least to date, an enterprising figure manufacturer has not brought out TYW and later 17th Century figures in "campaign dress").

Unfortunately, figures for this specific part of the TYW are really thin on the ground.

I've been working on a Spanish army to cover the period from Honnecourt to Lens using the FoG:R rules. There is practically nothing out there specifically for them, so I've been using a mix of ECW figures from Bicorne/ Renegade along with some TYW figures from Horcata and Warlord.

However, in order that they resemble at least something like what the Spanish might have looked like during the late TYW, I have been doing a lot of conversions.

Generally the ECW figures have way too many monteros, knitted woolen caps, and low-crowned hats for a Spanish or continental army. So I decided to replace most of these with tall-crowned floppy hats fashioned from epoxy putty and/or some spare suitable Redoubt heads. I also added some tatty capes, and in a few cases even tried my hand at fashioning some cassocks.

Here are a few WiP shots of some of them I have been working on.

It's been lot of effort (although to be honest not as difficult as I had originally feared- it gets faster with practice).

Now of course they aren't perfect, and I am no Paul Hicks. But I feel that at least I now have a better representation of what late TYW troops may have looked like based on period paintings, than if I had just gone with stock figures from ECW or early TYW ranges. In fact I had been looking at a lot of the Meulener/Snayer paintings that Daniel has referred to above for inspiration, both as regards modelling and painting.

At least it gives me a unique collection.

It's the same problem when it comes to doing French for the Rocroi period. Other than a few aging Foundry figures and some from Redoubt- both of which are completely incompatible with each other- it's a much neglected army as far as wargames miniatures go.

Nice conversion work Stavka, really captures the look.