MichaelCollinsHimself | 31 Aug 2016 9:37 a.m. PST |
If you`re looking at a new ancient rule set – which would you prefer to see:- 1. Army lists. 2. Historical orders of battle. OR 3. Neither, because you do your own research into the battles you fight. |
Tarleton | 31 Aug 2016 9:54 a.m. PST |
A mix of 2 and 3. Whatever it was I'd do my own research. |
The Virtual Armchair General | 31 Aug 2016 9:56 a.m. PST |
Ditto, Brother Tarleton! TVAG |
Rich Bliss | 31 Aug 2016 10:17 a.m. PST |
Definitely #2. I'll do my own research of course, but it's useful to see how the author translated the sources into,game terminology. |
PJ ONeill | 31 Aug 2016 10:28 a.m. PST |
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Russ Lockwood | 31 Aug 2016 11:38 a.m. PST |
If you're looking for tournament-style play, army lists seem to be included in most sets. If not, historical scenarios would be good. |
Extra Crispy | 31 Aug 2016 11:49 a.m. PST |
I prefer scenarios to either. |
MichaelCollinsHimself | 31 Aug 2016 12:41 p.m. PST |
OK… fair point. Please say if you prefer scenarios. |
ChrisBrantley | 31 Aug 2016 1:11 p.m. PST |
Both 1 and 2. I'll use what I want/like/need depending on what I'm trying to do, and will do my own research when I want/need to…but having all options available is preferable to having to pick between one or the other. |
advocate | 31 Aug 2016 1:38 p.m. PST |
1 + scenarios, which might be based on historical battles. Come on, if you ask what I want, I want it all! |
Shagnasty | 31 Aug 2016 1:45 p.m. PST |
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HANS GRUBER | 31 Aug 2016 3:17 p.m. PST |
Unlike more modern periods the few "historical orders of battle" which exist in ancient sources offer a flicker but very little real light. The current historical source used in most rules is wargames tradition or folklore. |
evilgong | 31 Aug 2016 5:11 p.m. PST |
For a new set, army lists to see how the rules play. db |
keyhat | 31 Aug 2016 7:21 p.m. PST |
I think you will find reliable OOBs hard to find for many of the armies played by ancient gamers. Since I presume you are doing original research, you will utilizing the OOBs you do find to create some of the lists. Hence you can publish your army lists, with the OOBs you used printed alongside for those armies that actually have a reliable OOB for a given battle or two. This would demonstrate in part how you are deriving your list, and could be used by scenario players as a start. I believe it would be a unique selling point for you. |
Marcus Brutus | 31 Aug 2016 7:27 p.m. PST |
Lists are essential in ancient gaming as OOBs are practically non existent. |
wrgmr1 | 31 Aug 2016 7:54 p.m. PST |
1. Army lists are necessary for any ancient rule set. |
Martin Rapier | 31 Aug 2016 11:09 p.m. PST |
Historical (or at least the authors interpretation of historical) scenarios for preference please. |
VVV reply | 01 Sep 2016 1:57 a.m. PST |
I did both. But army lists seem preferred. A tip. One buyer complained that the army lists were not in the rules. I had put them up on a forum thinking that was the best way to keep them updated. But certainly not a popular option with that player. |
CATenWolde | 01 Sep 2016 5:00 a.m. PST |
As someone working in the field, I have no faith whatsoever in the accuracy of traditional-looking "Orders of Battle" for ancients! However, a reasonable discussion of what evidence you think applies to the composition of armies in various times and circumstances, "translated" into a flexible army list, seem the best way to go. Daniel Mersey's original set of rules "Glutter of Ravens" was an excellent example of this approach. His summaries in Dux Bellorum are briefer (due to format I'm sure) but still good, and there he took the additional step of explaining how those army types would operate in various scenario types. For many rules, it seems that the rational behind their lists is "this is what DBx has" translated into their own system, which while not a terrible approach of course runs the risk of perpetuating a single interpretation. A bit of explanation would go a long way to building confidence for me. Cheers, Christopher |
MichaelCollinsHimself | 01 Sep 2016 7:43 a.m. PST |
Thanks chaps (Christopher, "VVV", & Keith) for the suggestions and tips – I`m asking this question with a view to providing either, or both OOB`s and lists for my own ancients rules. I could run to a few scenarios also, as I`m selling pdf downloads, the length of book is not crucial, or they could be bundled up in a number of file docs anyhow. I`ve posted this as a poll on two FB pages and it seems as though army lists are the more popular choice and the reasons for this are similar to those given above. Of course any OOB`s attempted will be using historical sources – or the best secondary source estimates that I can get hold of. |
Temporary like Achilles | 01 Sep 2016 8:25 a.m. PST |
Basic army lists (unless the rules are intended to be scenario based only, which is fine too) and a couple of sample historical scenarios to give us an idea of the author's take on things are always useful. Then we can factor that into our own research when putting scenarios together. As Christopher says, historical scenarios only can be a bit hit and miss unless you're going to also explain your reasoning and cite sources. Newbies probably want army lists so they can order figures to that scheme; veterans will probably do their own thing based on what figures they own and their own ideas. Cheers, Aaron |
MichaelCollinsHimself | 01 Sep 2016 8:56 a.m. PST |
I`m guessing you`re a vet Aaron! …and you`d vote for army lists and scenarios ? My Napoleonic scenarios here: link These have the main sources referenced… I think that I`ll attempt the same kind of thing for any ancient battle that I cover. Regards, Mike. |
Temporary like Achilles | 02 Sep 2016 2:21 a.m. PST |
Hi Mike, I think a combination is good. It gives people options and examples to go on. Looking at your scenarios, those are pretty comprehensive to my mind (but I'm not a Napoleonics buff, so am not the best person to judge!). The problem with ancient battles though is that the source material is often lacking, conflicting, or otherwise in need of interpretation, so one person's idea of what, say, Beneventum looked like can be radically different from someone else's! Cheers, and best of luck with whatever you decide. Aaron |
Duncan | 02 Sep 2016 10:33 a.m. PST |
I think army lists can be quite useful because they show what structure of armies work well with these particular rules |
MichaelCollinsHimself | 02 Sep 2016 12:47 p.m. PST |
Cheers Aaron! I have asked this question in two polls on FB… So far, army lists are the most popular. But, so many people seem to say that they "want it all" that I think I should use the scenario format from my Napoleonic scenarios for several ancient battles and accompany these with army lists for each campaign. But this is some way off yet ! Best Regards, Mike. |