"Saxon Limber Colours" Topic

Bonjour Chaps,

Help needed as I know that Saxon 1812'is guns were painted black and that the limbers were too.

The thing is that the limbers and ammunition caissons are either made with what looks to be wickerwork sides and/or have wickerwork "hay-racks" attached to them.

So was the wickerwork painted black as well as the rest of the woodwork or was it left natural?

Hope that someone has the answer as I've just started undercoating some wonderful Westfalia 4 pounder guns which come with their own charming 4 pounder limbers!

See links below:

link

link

Cheers,

Paul

ammunition waggons – 4 wheeled ones are not painted black – the frame work was light blue and the lid a sort of reddish brown. the wheels seemingly retained the black colour.
Wicker remained in natural colour.
You could also ask Westphalia, they know the stuff they produce.

Hi von WInterfeldt,

Good idea but weird that I'm always a tad reluctant to ask the manufacturer for free advice.

Will do so this time as Kawe is a great guy and the information I'm getting is pretty contradictory.

Cheers,

Paul

Please let me know about Kawe's answer

Mes Amis,

I think that I've got the answer.

I didn't realise that my copy of "Napoleonic Artillery" by Anthony Dawson, Paul Dawson and Stephen Summerfield states on page 229 that "Wagons had light blue body, light brown roof and black wheels" which is very helpful.

And, the icing on the cake is that there are, albeit black and white illustrations, photographs and paintings showing caissons with what appears to be light blue bodies!

So I think that's settled!

Cheers,

Paul

Do we know how far back (in time) these colours went? I believe that the black/brass colouring for the guns was used in the late 17th Century at least.

Hi Paul,

I can only suggest to read Joerg Titze's publications on the topic.

Another excellent source is a massive book about the Train of the Saxon army. It got released many decades ago in Eastern Germany and it's hard to come by sadly and I have yet to find a copy.

I have uploaded a few scans to dropbox that might be helpful.

link

Note: the 'blue' 1813 pattern ammo wagon likely never made it into battle.

Kind regards,

Kawe

very interesting uploads, the first is from the massive work of Rainhold – the middle one Rouvroy – but the last one, green instead of light blue – I would be interested about that source – Titze?

If you go to Google Books and type in Jorg Titze, quite a few books on the Saxons pop up. Unfortunately, the whole book is not available, but you can order them on Amazon.

Yep, Joerg was sending that image through. I agree that it's confusing to see the 1813 pattern in a muted green rather than the usual blue (I doubt it can be blamed on fading colors).

I have written a book on the Saxon Artillery. The limbers were painted the same as the artillery pieces. See also the SOJs.

It should be noted that the recipe for for black is like creosote so the colour should be like weathered telegraph poles. The metalwork should be painted yellow (yellow ochre). I had mistakenly thought there were brass fittings.

Stephen

Bonsoir Gents,

Sorry to have disappeared from the discussion but my internet fell-over for 3 days.

Many thanks to everyone and in particular to Kawe and Stephen for providing such a feast of information.

Perhaps shortages resulted in a lack of complete uniformity?

I'm tempted to interpret it in this way so as to have some variety with my caissons.

Cheers,

Paul

Did these black gun carriages apply to the pre-Confederation Saxon forces or the post, or both?

Both, very likely, since the black and gold (yellow) scheme is based on the Saxon coat of arms, and documented for their late 17th C guns already.

Thanks Musketier, interesting to know. There are only so many nations available as allies in 1805 so it's useful to know about the Saxons.