Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 5:25 a.m. PST |
Recently on a couple of threads, the feeling has been expressed that mockery is just a part and parcel of life and that certain groups, if they feel offended, should just 'toughen up' (perhaps paraphrasing). As was said 'Mockery, for better of for worse, is part of human nature and we should build up a tolerance to it rather than trying to sanitize our social intercourse.' Given that there was a recent statement on bigotry, we perhaps need to put this to the vote. Should mockery be allowed on the forums, to get it all out into the open and allow people to move on? It would show that 'Mockery and other unsavory variations of humour are safety valves which we use to avoid more pathological behaviours which can do real and mortal harm.' Obviously this would be equal opportunity mocking, so it should include height, weight, age, sex, religion, car choice, sexuality, favourite beverage, education, etc. (obviously except politics). This would also relieve the editors of their duties of sanctioning a number of posters. Obviously some might be offended, but it would be for the greater good. |
John the Greater | 25 Aug 2016 5:39 a.m. PST |
Of course someone like you would feel this way. Nya, nya, nya. |
Todd McLeister | 25 Aug 2016 5:43 a.m. PST |
Those 'safety valves' are useless, so long as there are rules against personal attacks and such. How do members differentiate mockery from insults? Plus, with some of the habitual rules-skirters around here, it wouldn't take long for TMP to devolve into the North American equivalent of That Other Site™, but with less cussing. The Eds would be saddled with even more work, not less. |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 5:43 a.m. PST |
What do you mean by that John? I'm just asking about equal opportunity mockery. |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 5:44 a.m. PST |
Todd, obviously those rules on personal attacks would need amending and in most cases, removing. |
Todd McLeister | 25 Aug 2016 5:46 a.m. PST |
In that case, those sacred FAQs are going to end up being mighty fluid! Nobody will be able to keep up. It's bad enough now! To be honest Ben, I'm not against the proposal, I just can't see it working for TMP, for a variety of member-driven reasons. |
korsun0 | 25 Aug 2016 6:04 a.m. PST |
Respectfully, don't agree with the proposal. Policing it would be like herding cats, plus there are sufficient mechanisms in place to sanction behaviour. If you start defining things, then, like wargames rules, someone will find a loophole. As an Australian, taking the pxxx is our national past time, so what may offend others aand cause them to complain is unlikely to bother me. So if its directed at me, and i dont give a toss, but someone else takes offence,how do you police that? Cheers Jon |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 6:06 a.m. PST |
Todd, it would be a little free fire at times and require a rugged individualism, but who knows? Jon – you wouldn't have to police people being offended and there'd be far fewer things to complain about. You'd sanction mentions of current politics, holocaust denying and, err, not too much else. |
ArmymenRGreat | 25 Aug 2016 6:27 a.m. PST |
Ben, I'm guessing John was test driving your proposal and didn't really mean anything, but that is just my read. |
Todd McLeister | 25 Aug 2016 6:27 a.m. PST |
Rugged individualism? I'm certainly all for that. But on TMP? No, because there are a number of members here who make that totally unfeasible. It's a nice idea, but unless the membership culture changes, along with the site rules, it'll never work. |
Joes Shop | 25 Aug 2016 6:36 a.m. PST |
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Rod I Robertson | 25 Aug 2016 6:36 a.m. PST |
This discussion is largely mooted by the fact that this site is a privately owned business concern. While freedom to mock is probably healthy for a society as a whole, in the microcosm of a business enterprise it will have draw-backs. The business' bottom line is a much stronger director than what is right, fair or healthy for a commodified community. If the controlling interests in the enterprise determine that certain expressions of humour or opinion are harmful to the revenue flows, then such expressions will be curtailed or shut down as an impediment to profit making. This will happen regardless of what polls a community petitions for and what decisions the community reaches. Thus, while unfettered discussion and debate might be healthy for the community, that community's health is not the priority of the rule-makers and thus the cries of the rabble for more open discussion fall on deaf ears and are ignored or deflected. Pecuniae obediunt omnia. I support the suggestion for a society as a whole or for a non-commercial social community, but in my opinion it is a non-starter from a business perspective. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Cerdic | 25 Aug 2016 6:43 a.m. PST |
Hey korsun0! As a Brit, I thought taking the pxxx was OUR national pastime! You guys just got it from us. To be fair though, Australia would probably come home in a comfortable silver medal position…. |
PrivateSnafu | 25 Aug 2016 6:47 a.m. PST |
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Winston Smith | 25 Aug 2016 6:55 a.m. PST |
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warwell | 25 Aug 2016 7:27 a.m. PST |
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Weasel | 25 Aug 2016 8:57 a.m. PST |
I don't know if I've ever looked at the internet and thought "yeah, thats okay but what it really needs is LESS civility" |
Todd McLeister | 25 Aug 2016 9:43 a.m. PST |
Ha ha! That's true Weasel. |
Editor in Chief Bill | 25 Aug 2016 9:46 a.m. PST |
Are you talking about mocking or 'ribbing'? |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 9:53 a.m. PST |
Well, the suggestion from the original thread was laughing at people Bill. Belittling would probably fall under what was discussed prior to that. Ribbing is generally considered more gentle. It also suggests that people might be in on the joke. |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 10:09 a.m. PST |
Weasel, well you'd think so wouldn't you? I am surprised that some haven't chipped in, supporting the suggestion, given their comments elsewhere. Whatever happened to 'tradition' or people just being told to toughen up? As allowing insults against *everyone* on these boards seems to be against the grain, whether for reasons of decency, civility or even just financial reasons (good catch Rod), maybe we ensure that posts which insult and belittle *anyone* just for who they are, don't appear on the board? |
Mako11 | 25 Aug 2016 10:46 a.m. PST |
Ah, was wondering what the next Tempest might be? Merely a F0.5 on the Tempest in a Teapot scale. If we can't "mock", how am I going to respond to future inquiries about General Bernard Montgomery's leadership in WWII? |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 10:54 a.m. PST |
Well I'd assume that you'd be discussing what he actually did and the decisions he made. And he's dead. Knock yourself out. Which wasn't really what started this. |
nazrat | 25 Aug 2016 11:56 a.m. PST |
Is your record scratched, Mako? You don't seem to want to talk about anything but your imagined tempests or teacups or something something. |
Bunkermeister | 25 Aug 2016 1:16 p.m. PST |
If a person is offended by something written on TMP directed at them then they should hit the ! key. No one should be offended on my behalf. If I am not offended by an attack on me, then I am offended that you are offended by that attack. Generally, ignore the troll and they go away. If someone wants to rant against me, I frequently consider the source to be unworthy of a response. My my career as a person I have been verbally attacked in almost every possible way, and I usually don't respond, ignoring them is often the sharpest counterattack. I don't need the Sensitivity Police to act on my behalf. Mike Bunkermeister Creek Bunker Talk blog |
Ben Avery | 25 Aug 2016 2:27 p.m. PST |
Good for you Mike. Don't worry, I'll let you fight your own battles. |
Winston Smith | 25 Aug 2016 5:40 p.m. PST |
The last thing TMP needs is to put a bad idea like this to a vote. We have enough rules and regulations around here, and to introduce hair splitting differences between ribbing, joshing, mocking, abuse…. Just let Dear Editor punish bad behavior. Weaton's Law: "Don't be a ….." The word I was unjustly DHed for using. The solution is NOT to avoid clicking on what offendeth thee. The solution is to drag your butt to some other site if you insist on the right to "mock" people here. I realize the moderation is not perfect. Where is it perfect? Note that I am NOT telling anybody to leave. I am simply sick of the hairy chested types who insist on free fire zones everywhere. Go to the University of Chicago. They just sent a notice to incoming freshmen they can expect no "safe spaces" or "trigger warnings". Good for them. I have seen what happens on TMP when rudeness is tolerated. The last thing we need is gradations of rudeness. |
Winston Smith | 26 Aug 2016 12:01 a.m. PST |
"Why am I in the DH? I was only gently ribbing? It's only a 30% on the abuse scale!" See how lame that is? "Less work for the moderators", my Great Aunt Tessie. |
korsun0 | 26 Aug 2016 2:37 a.m. PST |
@cerdic – you may have shown us, but we refined it…..:) |
Silurian | 26 Aug 2016 6:44 a.m. PST |
What on Earth happened to common sense? There is a time and place for everything. In a large community of many diverse individuals, if you allow ribbing and mocking, and goodness-knows what else the reactions will cover the spectrum. Some will laugh it off, others will argue, get offended, cry, lash out, etc. Hmm, as we've pretty much seen I believe. This is why we have manners and politeness (and rules and consequences for those unable to comprehend such things). This is how the site would function smoothly and be welcoming for many. Otherwise it'll start to descend into a chaotic quagmire of trolling, insulting and stupid comments/threads full of arguments and hurt feelings. I guess if you're happy in such a virtual environment, great. There may be a more appropriate site out there for you… Don't get me wrong, I'm happy with swearing, arguing and all the rest of it. My mates and I extract the pee from each other mercilessly. And I'll enjoy the depravity of that other place from time to time too (even dive in occasionally). But I also want a polite site where there is reasoned discussion, willing sharing of information etc. Let in the mocking and the hand starts to yank on the chain. |
Winston Smith | 26 Aug 2016 7:37 a.m. PST |
The ones who most stoutly insist on the right to be obnoxious are the ones who get upset over mechanisms like Stifle, Ignore, and the ability to turn off Boards. Not only do they insist on the right to insult, they demand that you be forced to read it. "Freedom of Speech" they call it. |
Toronto48 | 26 Aug 2016 12:22 p.m. PST |
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nazrat | 27 Aug 2016 6:29 a.m. PST |
So is it possible to "rib" somebody without getting in trouble for being "snarky"? Good god this is stupid! |