"Does anyone play 80 Years War?" Topic

I've had a vague interest in the 80YW for a long time, mostly as a spillover interest from my fascination with rise of the Dutch navy to its golden age. I've never seen anyone playing 80YW games, and I'm not even aware of figures for the period. The new Osprey book series got me thinking about it, though…

It seems most of the activity in the war was sieges. Wikipedia has a list of battles, but an awful lot of them are sieges or naval battles (esp. after 1600). Is there even a war to game here?

- Ix

I have, back in the day. In my group, we played relieve forces trying to get pass a supply convoy to the besieged, or attempts to break the siege for good. Of course, you can always game small skirmishes between opossing garrisons trying to control the same region. There were literally hundreds of similar affairs in real history, but as many of them didn't involve big bodies of troops nor famous generals they have passed as footnotes into history.

The lack of a decent and comprehensive range is a major hurdle.

Old GLory has a great range of figures to cover this period in 28mm. Beautiful figures I might add.

Mike B

No and I would not carry it. The level of interest is so weak that I could not justify stocking expenses or shelf/ display space. It is too hard to carry all of the products related to a well known war already.

Yes, but in 2mm they are just generic pike, shot & horse units.

MB--Are you referring to the French Wars of Religion range?

When else can you have combat/ambushes on ice skates. Played some with a friend who was very interested. Skirmish or small actions could be interesting. I used early war TYW figures.

I plan to collect them in 15mm with Khurasan's beautiful late 16th century range. As of now there are only Spanish and some German reiters. I think I will collect them on two levels, one base for skirmish games with Irregular Wars ruleset in mind and another for bigger battles with Baroque. Looking for additional releases although I may take the plunge into the Spanish before the French, Dutch and Emglish are released.

Yes but only in so much as it overlaps with a heap of other conflicts.

An EYW range in itself would need to be 3-4 sub ranges by period.

However I'll happily deploy my mid-late 16th troops to it, or my early 17th or my mid 17th – and my late 17th are happy to continue the war under other names.

I've got a big pile of Old Glory War of religion and Foundry Elizabethans that I'm doing with these rules
link

I think the 80 Years War has a lot to offer for wargaming.
If not for historical actions then sure for realistic 'what if' scenario's.
The many sieges involved lots of troops and many troops mostly were available also on the opposing side to attempt a relief attack.
This did not happen so often however, but offers a lot of what if oppertunities.

The terrain in the Netherlands often was covered by numerous ditches, lakes, rivers and marshes what prevented straight forward battles. However the Southern Provinces (roughly present day Belgium) and parts of the eastern Provinces were for reasonably suited for battles.

During the 1580's several smaller sized battles occurred in the northen Provinces, involving between 3.000 and 10.000 men aside. Also the Southern Provinces saw several battles up to 1600 (Nieuwpoort).
During the 1580's Parma executed a succesfull offensive campaign in the Southern Provinces. The Orangists might have turned the tide with French or English help.

The overlap with the French Wars of Religion makes the availability of suitable miniatures a bit easier.
In 15mm Essex and Minifigs have much to offer and lately also Khurasan.
In 28mm Old Glory (Wars of Religion) and Foundry have good ranges although not quite compatible in size.
Several ranges have started in 28mm, but also stopped after some packs.
For the early years you need typical Beggar troops and Germans in Pluderhosen.
Lately Warlord has issued a box of Arquebusiers in 28mm for the Wars of Religion and Assault Group has a beautiful range of late Tudor in 28mm.
For the later 80 Years War, after 1600, you might use 30 Years War and English Civil War figures for the Orangist/Dutch side.

DDG

Its not something I was much interested in until I was asked to do the Khurasan range. The little I have read suggests its an interesting conflict. A lot of sieges yes, but the are a fair number of field battles too (couldn't that be said of the Grand Alliance or Spanish Sucession wars too?)

Of the stuff I've done for Khurasan the Spanish and German cavalry are released, but there's also English, Dutch and German foot sculpted, plus the start of the French. We've diverted to the Ottomans temporarily which are on the table now. When its all released it should give pretty good coverage of the war up to about 1600 or a bit later.

And remember: it is called the 80 Years War because it spanned from 1568 to 1648. You can either play the period before the Twelve Years Truce (1568-1609) or the period afterwards (1621-1648) which overlaps with the 30 Years War. I am using Totentanz Miniatures in 15mm for that period. Haven't checked Khurasan yet, but I will right away!

I really like the OG War of Religion infantry but not so much the cavalry. Can someone suggest a good substitute in the healthy scale in which the foot are sculpted?

Gentlemen, pictures please! I'd like to see some of these troops in action. :-)

- Ix

There are plenty of battles as well as sieges in the 80YW, particularly in the early part (up to 1609) where William of Orange and his brother Louis led several invasions composed of exiles and mercenaries. Look up Jemmingen, Mook, Gembloux, St. Ghislain and Heiligerleee.

Here is a link to a few battles we turned into scenarios (Mook and Nieuport included):
PDF link

A replay of the battle of Coutras (pics of the action included), at least from the same period, and the French regularly intervened in the 80YW in the form of Huguenot auxiliaries.
link

Here's a quick snap of the German foot I did for Khurasan which are in the pipeline. Hopefully he doesn't mind me putting the pic up

Those look great- late 1500's?

My favorite war. Thanks to this war my Dutch ancestors fled to New Amsterdam . Hmmm does that make us war refugees?

perfectcaptain wrote:

Here is a link to a few battles we turned into scenarios (Mook and Nieuport included):
PDF link

That link is broken. Try again?

- Ix

My interest was peeked as this period was covered in Neil Thomas's "Introduction to Wargaming"

Clibanarium, that is a beautiful range of figures. I certainly look forward to the Germans (and French) being released. Perhaps a stupid question for such a broad topic, but is there any good one volume painting guide available?

Thank you Hans. Not a stupid question, there is in fact a single book that covers most of the armies (not the French or Germans though the Dutch chapter touches on the German Mercs);
"The Armies of England, Scotland, Ireland, the United Provinces and the Spanish Netherlands 1487-1609" by Ian Heath, published by Foundry, but OOP. It has no colour illustrations, but plenty of black and white line drawings and textual descriptions. Usually the source is cited and I found much of the stuff online. Its not exhaustive, but it might be the best single book you could get.

Downside is the book is now quite expensive, I don't know that its worth the £100.00 GBP+ I see it listed for these days. Well perhaps it is but I couldn't afford it at that price.
You can see some sample pages on its Amazon listing

link

Also check through "Daniel S"'s posts on the forum, he's extremely knowledgeable; I had little to go on with the Germans and he helped me tremendously.

The English wiki on battles is quite short, for a more up to date list use the Dutch wiki here:
link

There were probably a few more, but most sources are in Dutch or Spanish so not readily available to the English speaking public.

@clibanarium

The Heath book is in the $65 USD range with shipping at Amazon.

I think I have a copy that is long unused and in great shape. Unfortunately, no color pics, but many detailed descriptions and lovely line drawings. Colors are described, if not shown. If interested give me an email to send you more info.

Cheers!

Here is the Link to Tercios Miniatures whom are doing Spanish the Low countries, Ottoman Empire and soon the Polish. I have some of the Spanish and they are awesome and in 28mm. I play Pikeman's Lament and the rules fit the period really well.

link

Hi Irish Marine. Are those Tercios Miniatures Spanish and Dutch workable for 1580s-1600?

Sorry for the late post. More suitable for after 1600.

@Irish Marine

No worries. Thanks for the appraisal. I understand TAG are doing Late 16th Century Spanish Cavalry and Dutch Cavalry and Infantry in the coming months. A lot of those figures will be usable for French Wars of religion.