"DeLancey 's Facings in the South" Topic

Blue or Green?
Any distinction between Brigades?

I painted mine blue, from Mollo.
I took the Hinchliffe Continental with slouch hat and gave them pimp hat plumes from epoxy. My first conversions!
They have served honorably as His Majesties Loyal Generic Infantry.

I thought blue also. Almost all of the Loyalists got blue facings when the coats changed to red. Jessup's and a few far northern units got different facings.

John, I'm using the fabulous KMM Continentals with specially made Loyalist Pimp heads. All in action poses wearing campaign dress. No parade ground stuff, here. They are ready to slug it out in the Carolinas.

Again any distinction between brigades?

I'm doing both.

Blue. Bill – do we need to discuss these figures?

I think there was a deLancey Brigade with several battalions. As far as I know they dressed similarly.

Winston and his pimp hats…

Huggy Bear and King George…

God save me.

Eric

Hey Eric…
It was deLancey reenactors who called them "pimp hats" to me.
Of course they had a chick in the group, so they were pretty farby to begin with.

Are you certain you weren't just talking to a group of pimps and you assumed they were reenactors? It's an easy mistake for a wargamer to make.

You are cruising through an unfamiliar neighbourhood late at night, you see a peculiarly dressed group of guys and a girl standing on a corner, so being a friendly type, you slow down and say: "Are you guys De Lancey's Brigade?"

And they reply, "Sure. That's why we're wearing feathers in our pimp hats."

Why, that's almost exactly what happened!
You ran into them too?

That's certainly the story I told the arresting officer. I was only in the neighbourhood because I'd run out of Vallejo Prussian Blue and I was driving slowly because I was looking for an FLGS that I was sure was round here somewhere and stayed open late . . .

Whilst I'm sure everyone is intrigued by these details of your private lives, to answer the original question……

DeLancey's was composed of three battalions, with Delancey himself as brigade OC and Colonel of the 1st Bn; he and the 3rd Bn spent the entire war in or around NYC, with only the 1st and 2nd Bns serving in the South. At some point in the Southern campaign, the two Bns were merged into a "new" 1st Bn, and the 3rd was "upgraded" to 2nd. It seems that the battalions were distinguished by button grouping (with or without lace).

The entire corps originally wore green coats with white facings (drummers etc in reversed colours) from 1776-1778. When first issued with red coats, from 1779, they wore GREEN facings*; the blue facings were only adopted in 1783 when they were re-clothed. Thus, for Fort Ninety-Six and Eutaw Springs, they most likely wore red coats faced green.

link

There are some documents pertaining to the brigade's service which can be accessed here:-

link

[* Green was quite a common facing colour with Loyalist units post-adoption of red coats, even among "Royal" regiments – eg The King's American Regiment had olive green facings. ]

Well, I'll be darned.
As in the case of my Guards having Colours on the command stand, you repaint their facings at your peril.

HOWEVER, I have a group for TSATF skirmish purposes of "Continentals" with red coats and green facings in the "to be finished" generic Loyslists tray. They have now obtained an identity.

Bill? Yup. Your figures, with a few Ragged Eureka.

Those red faced greens can also be used for the 63rd foot. Red faced blue could also be used for North and South Carolina Royalists as well as several regular regiments.

Well there's a turn-up; every modern illustration has them in blue facings.

Giles Yes. Everywhere I looked it was blue. So, we have to go with Brendan. Green it is.

If anyone has a copy of Rene Chartrand's Osprey on Loyalists, it would be worth checking – I am open to being corrected on this.

I think part of the problem is that there is a 1783 list of Loyalist uniforms made by a Hessian officer, de Wiederhold (sp?). Because it's the only source for some units, and because it meets expectations as to continuity of dress for others, people assume that the details listed are for the whole of the post-1778 period (in the case of infantry), or for the entirety of their existence (cavalry). Given we are still not entirely sure that the "Philadelphia" look of Howe's Regular infantry outlasted 1777 – let alone continued to the war's end – it's not surprising that Loyalist clothing was less than regular.

It's worth noting that of the 5,000 green uniforms stored in NYC at the end of 1776, about 40% were to have green facings (the remainder were 40% white and 20% blue). Four years later, the facing cloth – presumably for red coats, by now – stored in NYC is listed as white. black, buff, orange and green; no blue at all for the infantry, and only in one case for cavalry (I assume King's American Dragoons).

I'll check the Osprey Loyalist book later tonight.
That's good info on that NYC storage, Brendan.

Is it possible that there was no blue facing cloth because they had used up their supply in outfitting the new Loyalist uniforms? Seems plausible to me.

As per Katcher: Osprey American Provincial Corps 1775-1784

Plate G 3 Pvt 3 RD Battalion 1783
Red faced blue, dark gaitered trousers

PAGE 39 Mentions NY and red, blue or brown wool trousers in the winter. Buttons in pairs of threes according to Battalion number.

There's no mention of when the facings changed from green to blue.

Rene Chartrand Osprey American Loyalist Troops 1775-1784

Plate F 2 Shows a drummer from Delancey's 3 RD Brigade 1781-1783.
Shows a drummer in reverse colors. Green faced red.

PAGE 45 States that a NY list from 1783 show blue facings.
The 1782 List allows green coats and red facings for drummers, which would lead you to believe that red faced green would be correct.

That all I got.

Perhaps Tood Braisted could help with this discussion?

PAGE 45 States that a NY list from 1783 show blue facings.

That would be the de Wiederhold list.

Todd's site is where my two links come from in my earlier post of 24/08.

Todd is the man for Loyalist stuff. His unit does the early impression of green coats with white facings. I believe there are two other re-enactment units but both wear red coats with blue facings IIRC. We don't see them much as one is in Canada.

Is there a possibility the uniform during the 1778-82 period might have been affected by whether the particular battalion was in the north or south? I am guessing for regulars the answer would be "no", except for local adaptions. However is it possible for Loyalist units in the south the British simply sent a large number of blue faced red regimental coats which were used to outfit everyone? I ask because there were a number of southern loyalist units that wore red faced blue.

I want to say there is some truth to that, in that the Crown sent a lot of red face blue uniforms over later in the war. I beleive a number of units switched to this uniform include the Loyal American Regiment, and the Yorkers. I suspect SM might have something to add.

Maybe I should have one unit painted with green and one with blue?

What's the consensus?

I don't think that the two facings colors existed simultaneously. One followed the other in time.

I know I am contradicting myself above, but I have the 1st battalion based for Age of Reason, three on a base, and the other based for skirmish.