"What are your favorite Company to battalion rules?" Topic

I'm liking chain of command for platoon level games but I'm not sure what I want for a company to battalion level game.

What rules do you prefer for this size of game?

Going to look over IABSM as I've heard good things about it.

IABSM is good for up to a couple of companies a side. More if you have all day.

IABSM is fantastic

Another vote for IABSM

Battlegroup Panzer Grenadier
Battlefront WW2
Combat HQ

Are decent alternatives to IABSM

Fireball Forward

Try, Action all Fronts (my rules)

Battlefront WW-II

Command Decision.

Fireball Forward, IABSM, and Schwere Kompanie for me.

IABSM – The best of the three for chaos, leadership handling, and infantry combat. Coming from Chain of Command you will see a number of similarities to help the learning curve – the big difference being card based activation and events.

Fireball Forward – In my opinion the best blend of Infantry and armor rules out there. Leadership is not as detailed as in IABSM but the tank rules play out more smoothly IMHO.

Schwere Kompanie – Closest thing to Advanced Squad Leader detail in miniatures form. Not a clone by any means however – the rules are nowhere near as complex or long and large tank battles with lots of crunch are very doable with the game.

FF and SK both have lite versions available for free so you can try before you buy.

Are there any company to battalion level games that are 1 stand = 1 tank and 3-5 men per stand?

Fireball Forward.

Another vote for IABSM.

You can base IABSM however you like, just be consistent.

Are there any company to battalion level games that are 1 stand = 1 tank and 3-5 men per stand?

Sure:

WRG 1925 – 1950
Flames of War

Thanks gents

I'll look at SK (since I do have those, but haven't really read them since I'm knee deep into learning CoC) and I'll grab FF.

These were just released.

And here's a detailed series of How To posts.

link

Are there any company to battalion level games that are 1 stand = 1 tank and 3-5 men per stand?

FOW?

or just use crossfire

Crossfire can go pretty big though "Company + a bit extra" was always the best size for us.

Command Decision for battalion level. Several of those already listed for company level.

VVV Reply…i looked up you rules. Says that infantry is individual soldiers. Can it really do company to Battalion? Seems like an awful lot of figs on the table

Crossfire, though stands equal a squad rather than a team, if that's important to you. Five core Company Command is fantastic as well, if stand=squad is ok. In fact the rules now have a stand=team variant, though I haven't tried them yet. link

You can try mine for free also, and they're intended for stand=team, though I've never actually tried it with multiple companies a side (I don't have that many figs!) :D link

Another vote for IABSM

They aren't new and shiny any more, but Look, Sarge, No Charts: WWII are quite streamlined and move quickly. Each player commands a battalion, typically. See more here: link

VVV Reply…i looked up you rules. Says that infantry is individual soldiers. Can it really do company to Battalion? Seems like an awful lot of figs on the table

Certainly company games were what they designed for. And we play games with multiple companies per player regularly. For a real battalion level game what would be needed is battalion HQ's and battalion support units.

Certainly table size is important, so its either use smaller figures or a bigger table. But the important thing is to keep the rules simple; so no throwing of grenades, there is no air support, no friendly-fire or wounded to worry about, Artillery and AFV are severely limited to keep the action where it is important, with the infantry. If you want massed tanks, then Flames of War is your friend.

Played FoW for the first time several weeks ago and it seemed too gamey. Now, this is coming from someone with little to no experience, but the guys I played with said that it's intentional since it's a tournament style of game.

Battalions in Crisis ! out of print for awhile now. still enjoy playing them with about a company per side.

Rapid Fire for our group.

I played FOW twice, and yes, I think there is an effect on the rules from being designed for tournaments. Anyway…I'm more interested in recreating battles and imitating historical situations.

I'll admit that the FOW concept has generated tremendous interest and no doubt excellent profits for the company. Who can argue with that kind of success?

As a student of history…it's less fun for me when faced with a battle that is not so much simulation, as it is sport. I agree with you acctingman1869…it becomes 'gamey'.

I think I have it sorted. Flames of War bases its infantry on multiple bases, 2 to an infantry squad. A single hit can kill a base, so the squad takes 2 kills to remove. Compare that with 1 figure = 1 man basing. A typical 10 man WW2 squad takes 10 kills to remove, making them a lot harder to destroy. No wonder tanks are favoured in FoW.

When I was at Britcon a couple of weeks back, I saw one German force in the FoW tournament; a JagdTiger, 2x Tiger II, an 88 and 2x Panzergrenadier squads. Thats a well equipped late war German commander I thought (but inexpensive to put on the table).

I think I have it sorted. Flames of War bases its infantry on multiple bases, 2 to an infantry squad. A single hit can kill a base, so the squad takes 2 kills to remove. Compare that with 1 figure = 1 man basing. A typical 10 man WW2 squad takes 10 kills to remove, making them a lot harder to destroy. No wonder tanks are favoured in FoW.

I have no particular "thing" for FoW but this seems unfair: there are several ways of killing multiple infantry with one "hit" (i.e. HE) in most WW2 rules. I don't remember thinking infantry in FoW was particularly weak when I've played it.

When I was at Britcon a couple of weeks back, I saw one German force in the FoW tournament; a JagdTiger, 2x Tiger II, an 88 and 2x Panzergrenadier squads. Thats a well equipped late war German commander I thought (but inexpensive to put on the table).

I think min-maxing forces goes with the territory of competition games and it isn't a negative reflection on the rules themselves…

Absolutely, except of course that the rules allow it and those who see an advantage of so doing, do so.

And of course its not unfair, its the rules. Direct fire, artillery fire, its a lot easier to wipe out a squad of infantry in FoW than where you are dicing to kill off squad members individually. I was looking for the 'thing' that makes FoW different from other games I have played (and as others have found, I found FoW gamey). Shooting to hit and do damage very similar to other rule systems but its thing of one hit destroying a base of infantry that makes FoW from other games where a tank is represented by a model and a man by a figure (although grouped together on a base).

A typical 10 man WW2 squad takes 10 kills to remove, making them a lot harder to destroy. No wonder tanks are favoured in FoW.

Without commenting on FOW specifically, I'd wager that it takes far less than 10 kills to neutralize a squad from contributing to the battle.

Oh certainly. But the difference is 2 to 10.

without going into the mechanical ramifications, narratively I've always liked the stand=4 or 5 guys scale, as I assume that stand removal is usually the 1 guy getting hit, and the 3 to 4 other guys to get him off the front line.

Another Up one for IABSM. Use proper tactics or die!

we use a 2 stage system for defenders hidden blinds. First Spot/Move/Fire goes from Hidden (on Map) to Blind (usually a piece of card on table to show general are of hidden unit(s).

Blinds that fire or are spotted go to unit on table. Blinds can move as per rule, no reveal Attackers always start on blind, never hidden.

Watching BKC players dash across open ground then get cut to ribbons is always fun.

My regular IABSM opponent didn't recce properly, bypassed a copse. Whoops. He admitted he should have known, no excuse.

What's fun with solo IABSM? Make up your blinds then let someone else mix them up. Then you lay them out without looking and play. Makes for some really entertaining results!

John – If you have that "Platoon Forward" book they published, you can also use the tables in there to generate the units as you reveal a blind.
I've done that and it worked really well.

Ya, that works too, but cuts back on the entertainment value a bit. Nothing like flipping over a green infantry unit across from a tank platoon, or engineers set to assault a defended stone wall. Not to be done in a public game mind you, but for solo purposes it keeps things lively.

We just released Ostfront, which is Company to Battalion level (and not just for re-fighting the Ostfront, can be used for any theater)

link

Good balance of simplicity and accuracy, large variety of forces covered, and an in-built map campaign.

Currently have the Wehrmacht, Soviet and Royal Italian Army lists available, but the US and British lists will be up over the next few days

@Ostfront Publishing
Can you give me some insight to how tank vs tank fire is resolved and how armor specs are represented in the rules?

Also what does each unit on the board represent?

@DanLewisTN
Each AT gun (either on a tank/SPG or field gun) has a "Hit" score and a "Type". To inflict a hit you just need to roll equal to or above the Hit score.
Vehicles have a common damage table, and the "Type" allows you a bonus when rolling damage.
AT guns have a range depending on their real life characteristics. At long range things are harder to hit, and you get a negative to damage, and at close range things are easier to hit and you get a bonus to damage.

Armor is represented as a modifier to Hit Score and Damage. So a medium tank like a T-34 has no modifiers, because its "medium" all around, but a Tiger is "Heavy 2" to the front, so any AT weapons are +2 to hit, and -2 Damage. So for example a T-34/76 (with a 4+ to hit and no "type" bonus) firing at the front of a Tiger would need a 6 to hit, and would be -2 to damage rolls, provided it isn't at long range. At close range it would need a 5 to hit, and only be -1 to damage. At Point Blank range (very close!) it would be its usual 4+ to hit and with no damage modifier. If the T-34 can get around the side or rear of the Tiger, where its only "Heavy 1" (+1 to hit, -1 to damage) it would have better chances.

On the opposite end, Light armor gives a bonus to Hit and Damage rolls. So the Something like a Stuart or T-70 has "Light" armor all round, while a Half Track has "Light 2". The same T-34 firing at a Stuart for example, would hit on a 3+, and inflict +1 damage.
Firing at a Half track, it would hit on a 2+ and inflict +2 damage.
Light 2 and Unarmored vehicles can also be damaged by HMGs and Rifles respectively.

As for units, a base of regular infantry equals ~50 men, with 2 bases making a platoon. a base of veteran Assault infantry equals ~20 men. Infantry have the same stats for all factions, so its all about how you use them, and support them, rather than any special rules or abilities.
Vehicles operate individually, and each one represents roughly 2 vehicles in real life.

Recon is also important in this game, giving light vehicles a reason to exist, as they speed out, recon an area, and give a tactical advantage like a free air strike or some reinforcements.

Hope that answers your questions!

Combat Command is geared for battalion level. Generally a player commands a battalion sized battle group.

Each stand represents a platoon.

Interactive sequence of play with order chits. (Avoids the pitfalls of both YGoIGo and random (card/cube) activation.)

Available through WargamesVault (on line publisher). Basic game about the cost of a movie ticket.

Large battle (Arracourt, Christmas Day attack, etc. playable in a afternoon, mega battle Goodwood, Sword Beach playable in a day with multi-players). Has a tournament style system but aimed at recreating historical battles.

Good on line support…

TomT

Best rules for this size without having to resort to '1 AFV model=2 actual AFV', i would say Mein Panzer or Jagdpanzer.