10thMountain | 22 Aug 2016 6:24 a.m. PST |
Hello, Would it be wise to study Nathanael Greene's in order to defeat ISIS? Opinion please? |
Winston Smith | 22 Aug 2016 6:38 a.m. PST |
Why would we want to lose every battle? |
10thMountain | 22 Aug 2016 6:53 a.m. PST |
He bleed Cornwallis's army dry. Also, he was able to combine both conventional and unconventional forces well. |
Pan Marek | 22 Aug 2016 7:05 a.m. PST |
OK. the problem is that Cornwallis' army was a conventional force. ISIS, not so much. |
Legion 4 | 22 Aug 2016 7:37 a.m. PST |
The US Military studied(s) such tactics, etc., … And can and will use those as required. Especially with Spec Ops types. But it all cases like this the tactics and techniques, etc., may have to be updated a bit. And be sure you are not taking the wrong lessons learned from the past and be placed in the current situation. E.g. … the Red Coats were not the VC … the VC is not Daesh. Regardless the study of past military operations, is important. To maybe learn what could be done as well as what should not be done. |
mashrewba | 22 Aug 2016 8:23 a.m. PST |
I thought in this analogy the Red Coats are the US not the VC. |
kallman | 22 Aug 2016 8:30 a.m. PST |
As Legion 4 accurately stated you have to make sure to learn the correct lesson. |
cwlinsj | 22 Aug 2016 9:15 a.m. PST |
If possible, the US should identify any potential Nathanael Greenes in the ISIS ranks and drop a Hellfire on his position. Greene was a master of defense and counterpunch. Not useful to the US allied effort. Certainly didn't work in Vietnam or A-stan. |
historygamer | 22 Aug 2016 9:19 a.m. PST |
|
advocate | 22 Aug 2016 9:24 a.m. PST |
'Bleeding Cornwallis dry' was possible because of distance and the French navy. It's not a strategy that I see working with ISIS. They are as likely to be able to recruit after a defeat inflicted on them by the Great or Little Satan as after what they might claim as a victory. |
Gunfreak | 22 Aug 2016 10:01 a.m. PST |
First line manned by amry rejects, mall ninjas and "militia" Second line by national guard. Third line by regular army/Marines. |
Legion 4 | 22 Aug 2016 12:39 p.m. PST |
I thought in this analogy the Red Coats are the US not the VC. I was coming from a "US-centric" standpoint albeit the analogy is "stretch" … As Greene, an America Revolutionary, was fighting the Redcoats, etc., … But yes, that analogy has been used about Vietnam. With some obvious similarities. |
Zargon | 22 Aug 2016 1:50 p.m. PST |
GF+1 as if the dishdash are going to play by any form of rules that can be comprehended by any sane person, but this would look heroic for the press . Pandora's box was opened looong ago when certain puppets were created in Persia and ME by oil&co in the 1950s. A certain person could have cut the snakes head off 8 years ago if he wasn't trying so hard to make enemies friends and friends enemies while closing shop in the midst of sale season, bad business practice does not produce any Nathanael Green thought practice (which would entail stock loss that this shop owner could not accept) so no 10thM not in the foreseeable I think. And anyway what's wrong with a bunker buster and mop up when you have air superiority? |
Legion 4 | 23 Aug 2016 8:46 a.m. PST |
Just being nosy … 10th Mountain … were you in the 10th MTN ? If so I'd be interested in hearing your comments about A'stan, etc. As I was out of the US ARMY in '90. So I don't have any real on the ground knowledge of this. " And if not … it's "cool/neat" to support, etc., the 10th MTN by using it as a screen name. |
Weasel | 23 Aug 2016 10:49 a.m. PST |
So what I am getting is that to defeat ISIS, we need some spanish muskets and the aid of the French navy. |
10thMountain | 23 Aug 2016 12:03 p.m. PST |
I served from 92-2004 w/ the 10th Mountain (11B infantry) and 773rd Transportation Unit. |
10thMountain | 23 Aug 2016 1:54 p.m. PST |
I am an assistant professor of military history at American Military University and 7th grade US History. I posted the question the various scenarios and opinions that would be posted. I believe that the American Revolution lends itself well ton our situation in Afghanistan. It is imperative to study both perspectives in order to understand what can and should not be applied to our current situation. |
Legion 4 | 23 Aug 2016 2:11 p.m. PST |
Good to know ! Thank you for your service. I am a fan of Greene's leadership, tactics, etc., during the AWI. And yes there are some parallels between the two conflicts. I'm sure the higher ups have thought of this and other past conflicts where COIN, etc., was involved. And SF types run some great ops using guerilla/insurgent tactics and techniques in most conflicts. And we would say, sometimes you learn more from losing than winning. But I'm afraid at this point, A'stan may very well be a lost cause ? |
10thMountain | 23 Aug 2016 2:19 p.m. PST |
It has become a forgotten front. I believe our current administration is not helping the situation either. Many veterans from our operations in Somalia were confident that we would have learned from that most recent conflict. |
10thMountain | 23 Aug 2016 2:22 p.m. PST |
Thank you for your opinion. Here is a paper that I came across. link |
Legion 4 | 24 Aug 2016 9:37 a.m. PST |
Well it has been said by a number of former Sec Defs. I saw the interviews, etc. The decisions are based on some 35 year old academic intellectual comments who never served. Who is in some posting in the "big machine". Over the Generals' and Sec Def's, etc., advise. If I say more, I'll surely be DH'd ! However I did post this on another thread last week or so … It seems appropriate to this discussion : Reminds me of what happened in Mogadishu in '93. The Military asked for a Mech Hvy Company Tm. Consisting of 1 MBT Plt = 4 M1s and 2 or 3 Mech Plts = 10-14 M2 IFVs. But the current civilian leadership decided that would look too aggressive and like the US was adding heavy firepower, etc., … So it was denied. This was requested well before the Blackhawk Down incident. The military knew it might need a powerful QRF ,etc., … To go in an pull out lighter units, like the RANGERS, SF, DELTA, etc., … Well as we see that would have saved US lives. 18 KIAs, and 84 WIAs was the cost of the elected civilian leaderships' bad choice. And not listening to its military. The Sec Def resigned a few weeks later. Even I saw what I would have done if I was a Company Tm Commander if I was on the ground. With the M113 Mech Co., I commanded '87-'89. It is a not a unique op to roll thru a street with the MBTs in the lead and the APCs/IFVs in trail. Using all the their firepower to suppress and eliminate any and all resistance. And roll thru meager obstacles like the piles of burning tires and junk the Sami's blocked the roads with. I watched a documentary on NATGEO last night about this battle. And it brought back the situation in my mind. The US General on the ground talked about requesting this armor. And he & I obviously had similar training as he said what I had. About an Armored QRF. No I'm not as smart as a General. But again even an old Mech Company Cdr, knew enough about using a Mech Hvy Co. Tm as a QRF/Relief Column. It's not a Rommel or Patton level of military expertise. Too bad the POTUS and his Sec Def didn't listen … again … |