Winston Smith | 13 Aug 2016 7:38 a.m. PST |
Sharpe did it. And it was in a rules set that had a lot of Sharpe scenarios. So. Did set upon riflemen really load without a patch and just ram the butt on the ground in dire circumstances? |
nnascati | 13 Aug 2016 7:45 a.m. PST |
It was said Simon Kenton was able to do it as well. |
14Bore | 13 Aug 2016 7:48 a.m. PST |
There are videos on YouTube of firing tests between ramming and tapping with smoothbores. I have doubts about rifles. |
Dave Crowell | 13 Aug 2016 7:49 a.m. PST |
It can be done with a smoothbore provided not too much powder fouling and a loose fitting ball. You lose both range and accuracy though. I suppose it could be done with a rifle too. it's not the safest way to shoot though, a ball that isn't fully seated can cause bad things. Lots of blackpowder shooters will tap the butt on the ground to settle the powder before loading the ball. I don't know if it actually makes a difference, but it is done. |
Randall | 13 Aug 2016 7:52 a.m. PST |
Here's a video testing the procedure: YouTube link This doesn't mean it was ever done, but it looks like a plausible option in certain situations. |
Extra Crispy | 13 Aug 2016 8:00 a.m. PST |
If the BBC says it was done, that's good enough for me. |
Balin Shortstuff | 13 Aug 2016 8:33 a.m. PST |
What they said. You would have to be pretty certain the ball would hit bottom. So rifles are out, and if you think the barrel is fouled enough not to let the ball to fall freely to the bottom, again it's out. FWIW another reported speed trick would was to skip putting powder in the pan and hope that taping the barrel would move enough of the main powder load into the priming pan. Very likely earlier, probably arquebuses, when the touch holes were big enough and powder fine enough, Again iffy and desperate. |
Doctor X | 13 Aug 2016 9:15 a.m. PST |
I saw it on TV so it has to be true. |
rmaker | 13 Aug 2016 9:33 a.m. PST |
Ezekiel Baker thought about the objections to rifles (like too slow to load), so British riflemen were provided with a certain number of unpatched, slightly sub-caliber rounds for use in emergency situations where rapidity of fire trumped accuracy. |
Skeets | 13 Aug 2016 10:11 a.m. PST |
I just finished reading a memoir of an officer in the Second Seminole War and he recounts seeing the Seminoles load powder, spit a ball down the barrel, tap the butt on the ground and fire. He also later stated that one of the men in his company got hit in his cross belt and it failed to penetrate. |
jowady | 13 Aug 2016 11:06 a.m. PST |
I know it's a later war but the 140th NY did it as they charged over Little Round Top at Gettysburg. Of course that was with Minie Balls. |
Ed Mohrmann | 13 Aug 2016 12:30 p.m. PST |
About 40 years ago, a number of us shot a lot of black powder, using s'bores and rifles of various sorts. One of that number, a gunsmith, decided to try to 'tap' load a repro 1863 Springfield rifle-musket. The bore was clean (had not been fired yet that day) he used a Speer .577 round ball rather than a normal Minnie ball (the 'aschcan' type), no patch and a normal load (60 gr FF black powder, rather than Pyrodex) The result was a ringed barrel and a disgruntled gunsmith. |
attilathepun47 | 13 Aug 2016 2:05 p.m. PST |
It might have been risky, but if you have a Vistula Legion lancer bearing down on you with blood in his eye, it would be a, "What the Hell, might as well try it!" sort of moment. More importantly, something generally overlooked is that any muzzle-loading rifle could be fired as rapidly as a musket (using normal ramming procedure) by simply not bothering with a greased patch, PROVIDED that the weapon was provided with some rounds made up into cartridges. Of course, you would lose all the accuracy advantage of the rifle, but this would not be very important at close range. The smaller caliber of the rifle balls also would make them somewhat less lethal than a proper musket in this situation. Rmaker has already pointed out that the famous British Baker rifle was provided with balls small enough to load the rifle in musket fashion. What he omitted to say specifically is that these were also provided with paper cartridges of pre-measured powder. I have suspected for quite awhile that the British rifle-equipped units (95th, 5/60th, KGL light battalions, and some others) may have actually dispensed with greased patches pretty frequently in the field. What I would like to know is whether anyone has documentary evidence about the prevalence of such practice. |
goragrad | 13 Aug 2016 2:50 p.m. PST |
Been too long ago to cite a source, but as attila notes it was stated that skipping the patch was the method used to speed up reloading when necessary. Might have been Morgan's Rifles in the AWI. |
rustymusket | 13 Aug 2016 5:23 p.m. PST |
I have read the Prussians did it in SYW with smoothbores but rifled guns was not mentioned and IMHO would be risky. |