Judge Doug | 08 Aug 2016 8:31 a.m. PST |
Quick summary of tweaks and changes. Since the templates have had people up in arms, here's the quote about templates: "It's as simple as, instead of rolling when you hit with HE, instead of rolling 2d6 and finding out how many hits was caused and then apply, you just place the template to see how many hits was caused, and apply. So it literally, the placing of the template replaces the roll of the dice. There is no scattering of the template, nothing like that. So it's very straightforward. If you miss, you miss. You don't worry about where it goes." |
Ceterman | 08 Aug 2016 9:54 a.m. PST |
I wonder if they changed the "Dump ALL of your pins when going into H2H Combat" to at least represent a very heavily pinned unit suffers "some kind of penalty"? Do you know anything about that? The rest of the changes sound good to me. Some beautiful artwork in that vid, too! Peter |
redmist1122 | 08 Aug 2016 1:10 p.m. PST |
To be honest with you about BA, the deal about pins and close combat was a big turn-off for me from playing the game…along with a few other minor issues. We'll see when the dust settles with this new variant/update. P. |
Ceterman | 08 Aug 2016 2:15 p.m. PST |
redmist1122, We already play it that on the 1st H2H combat the unit being attacked looses 1 pin, if they survive, they drop another on the 2nd attack, etc. I'm pretty sure that's how we do it. It's been a while! But, I know it's something like that. It just ain't right to pin the hell outta someone then attack & have all the hurt you put on them just disappear! Peter board2deathterrain.com |
BeneathALeadMountain | 08 Aug 2016 2:38 p.m. PST |
The whole pins and close combat thing is the only part of BA I have a real problem with, hopefully it will get sorted. |
nazrat | 08 Aug 2016 5:48 p.m. PST |
I have more of a problem with "Win close combat by one and utterly destroy an entire squad" rule. It's so awfully gamey. |
Dynaman8789 | 08 Aug 2016 6:00 p.m. PST |
> It just ain't right to pin the hell outta someone then attack & have all the hurt you put on them just disappear! It should also make them a heckuva lot easier to deal with. If I play the game again the pins stay on and hits are not automatic. A 1-6 will be a hit with pins subtracting from that number (so still an auto hit without a pin) |
skirmishcampaigns | 08 Aug 2016 6:37 p.m. PST |
I am encouraged. The MG issue needed to be addressed. |
Dynaman8789 | 09 Aug 2016 4:43 a.m. PST |
I think he said a little later that points would not change, not a points gamer myself but if they change the power of MGs and not the points things are certainly going to get out of whack. |
Ceterman | 09 Aug 2016 5:59 a.m. PST |
Dynaman8789, By leaving Pins on, does make it a heckuva lot easier to deal with. Ain't it -1 to their roll for every pin? (the guys who are pinned?) It's been a while since we played, but I know they hurt your roll. I am thinking these are all good changes. Nazrat, I agree. But that can change too! Peter |
Dynaman8789 | 09 Aug 2016 7:47 a.m. PST |
Ceterman: I think the rules as written are that pins automatically come off and you do not roll for hits in CC, just for the effects of the hit. My only real change is to keep the pins on and force a roll to hit (which can only be missed if the shooter has at least one pin) |
Judge Doug | 09 Aug 2016 8:10 a.m. PST |
What many people forget is that pins DO affect the unit being charged because they are -1 to hit per pin on the reaction fire. So if you pin an enemy unit enough you will be able to assault them with little to no resistance. (and remember, it's not punching combat, it's a close range firefight, which is why assault weapons like SMG get 2 dice) For me, I much prefer the "one round and done". Combats occurring over multiple turns is way more gamey than not and brings to mind 3 turn or longer giant melee scrums from 40k… @Dynaman8789 – yes, points values are not changing, as they are not making new army books (other than a revised German one incorporating all the units from the later expansions and some rejigged unit composition). But it was generally agreed that LMGs for 20 points were universally not worth it, so they are buffing LMG and MMG in the rules to better align them with the points values in the army books. Playing scenarios it won't change them too much (other than to make MG's a little more effective). Other things are flamethrowers and recce being toned down, and armored transports made a little more reliable. Though the best thing is having the FAQ and Errata document incorporated into the book, I hate having 5 or 6 loose pages folded up into my current first editioin book :P |
Ceterman | 09 Aug 2016 8:13 a.m. PST |
Dynaman8789, That sounds good to me. Like I said, it's been a while but we are gonna play BA modified for WW1 for our next game. So the way you would do it is: If you have the pinned unit, say 3 pinned markers, fighting back & they roll a 6, you would count that as 3 hits, correct? Or say they rolled a 3 or less=No hits, correct? |
Ceterman | 09 Aug 2016 8:20 a.m. PST |
Judge Doug, BUT once you get to them (mainly because they missed on their reaction fire) then ALL of their Pins would come off when you close to H2H, Right? And also, say they had already had their chit drawn, they can't reactive fire anyway, Correct? So you would not have to worry about that. Then you charge, close & you are fighting a unit with no Pins now, right? So no bonus to attacking a very pinned unit whatsoever… |
Big Red | 09 Aug 2016 8:27 a.m. PST |
Hmmm… $40 USD pre-order price, $85 USD regular price? I don't mind paying $40 USD for BA2 but $85 USD seems a little high. Are they trying to cut out the FLGS from their business model by selling it for less than half price if you order now rather than waiting for it to show up at the local retailer? Are they going to give their distributors/retailers an option to pre-order a minimum amount? I like BA because its a fun game. I like Warlord because they have cool stuff. I don't understand their marketing strategy. Of course there's a lot of stuff I don't understand. |
Judge Doug | 09 Aug 2016 8:31 a.m. PST |
@Big Red – you might want to double check what you're looking at. The rulebook is $40 USD MSRP |
Big Red | 09 Aug 2016 8:35 a.m. PST |
Judge Doug, Oh shoot! The price WOULD be $85 USD if you ordered the rule book AND the infantry box set separately. Did I mention that there is a lot of stuff I don't understand! |
Judge Doug | 09 Aug 2016 8:47 a.m. PST |
@Ceterman – yes that is correct – and if your target has already been allocated an order dice then yes, it's easier to assault them. So if your opponent did not Rally or put them on Ambush or something, then take advantage of your opponent's poor planning :) Plus, your assaulting unit strikes first. The numbers work out fairly nicely, which is why I don't mind the jarring elegance of the BA assault phase: consider we have two squads exactly the same and we roll average. Ten men with rifles, regulars. A is assaulter and B is defender. situation 1: B has not gone and has no pins. A assaults. B reacts and gets ~7 hits at point blank range and kills about ~4 men. A has 6 men remaining and rolls first, kills ~3 men. A then fights with it's 7 men and gets ~4. B wins the fight having taken some casualties because A poorly chose to assault a unit that is prepared. This would be even worst if B was at a defended obstacle because they would roll simultaneously and B would get about ~5 kills to A's ~3 kills and definitively win. situation 2: B has gone and has no pins. A assaults. B cannot react because they have already gone. Now B has a greater chance as they strike first with 10 men, getting ~5 kills, and A only gets about ~3 kills in return. So it is very smart to assault a unit that has already acted that turn. However if B was in a defended position, they would strike simultaneously and it would be up to the fates at that point as they had equal chances. situation 3: B has not gone and has 2 pins. A assaults, B reacts and only gets about ~3 hits at point blank range due to the pins. 1 or 2 men from A dies, and so they strike and get 4 or 5 hits against B, who now only strikes back with perhaps 5 men. I can keep going with this, and can keep mathing out the situations, but you see what I mean. Once I worked out the numbers, that's why I went from "wow this seems really weird and counter intuitive" as many do, to "wow this system is strangely elegant in that it produces fairly accurate results without a lot of rigamarole". It definitely also allows for some crazy moments (once had an officer with an SMG go crazy and assault 5 men and then won, which reminds me of the end of Private Ryan when Upham captured the squad of Germans) and of course the dice gods can turn against you at any moment. PLEASE NOTE that I am not aware of any changes in second edition so take everything above with a grain of salt as it is only my perspective from first edition! |
Judge Doug | 09 Aug 2016 8:49 a.m. PST |
@Big Red hahaha yessir I assume you also got a special code in your email? I couldn't help myself and used it, I'm getting the 2nd edition rulebook and a box of British Infantry for $40 USD which you cannot beat! And I added a $10 USD blister pack to the order to get free shipping. A new rulebook, box of plastic soldiers, and a blister pack of several metal figs for $50 USD shipped just about made my day, haha! |
Ceterman | 09 Aug 2016 10:12 a.m. PST |
Judge Doug, I see what you are saying. I'm still thinking the unit with more pins should suffer a bit more when the actual H2H die is rolled… but, I'll have to take a 2nd look at it. Another question, How did you get the 2nd Edition BA Rules AND a box of plastic Infantry for $40 USD? I'm only seeing the rules & the Patton fig for $40. USD What is this "special code" you speak of? |
Captain Cook | 09 Aug 2016 10:25 a.m. PST |
@ Ceterman It appears it is being sent out to customers who have bought direct from Warlord, I don't know what the spend criteria is to trigger this or whether it only applies to those who bought the first edition direct. |
Ceterman | 09 Aug 2016 10:59 a.m. PST |
Whaaaa, whaaaaa! I've bought lots of stuff direct, but not the 1st book. :( Wanna post it? ;) |
Dynaman8789 | 09 Aug 2016 11:07 a.m. PST |
There are a couple different ways a defender does not get to shoot first at CC attackers so the pins are meaningless in those instances, and being pinned should make it harder once things get close in as well. |
Thomas Thomas | 09 Aug 2016 11:58 a.m. PST |
Use the Close Assualt rules out of Gates of Antaris (and everything else for that matter). They are much better but will not be used in BA2. Also no change to from d6 so you'll be stuck with tight range of mods. A d10 appendix might have been nice. According to sources they could not do much because they needed to leave army books in tact. TomT |
Big Red | 09 Aug 2016 1:19 p.m. PST |
Ceterman, I've bought lots of stuff direct too but I didn't buy the 1st book from them direct and they still sent me an email with a code. They have been pretty responsive in the past so you might want to inquire why you didn't get the secret code (and hand shake, decoder ring and tattoo decal). |
Dynaman8789 | 09 Aug 2016 5:33 p.m. PST |
Buy the new one from Amazon. Will be much cheaper than direct from Warlord. No need for a coupon. |
Judge Doug | 16 Aug 2016 7:20 a.m. PST |
@Ceterman the codes they sent were one-time use – but it wouldn't hurt to send an email asking about it! Also since as far as I am aware no one on the internet has seen the BA2 rules I'm loathe to speculate about any changes and modifications other than those that Alessio has specifically discussed. Perhaps the combat system has been tweaked… |
FlyXwire | 17 Aug 2016 7:22 a.m. PST |
This off the V2 order page at Warlord (much of this was covered in the linked video above, save perhaps the armed-transport support ability now?): Officers activate other units! Used cleverly, this creates a huge tactical shift as you can order multiple units to fire or advance in concert. Big Explosions! HE fire now uses templates to determine damage – your opponent had better spread out his troops to avoid carnage! Armed Transports! Once your squad has piled out of its halftrack, the driver can speed around and unleash a hail of lead at the enemy! Player Feedback! We've listened carefully to the community and taken advantage of the thousands of battles you've played to improve the game in dozens of other ways. |
kallman | 19 Aug 2016 3:38 p.m. PST |
According to sources they could not do much because they needed to leave army books in tact. I would have dumped the game if I would have been required to buy new army books. Glad they made the right call on this and did not follow the GW model. |
Clash957 | 19 Aug 2016 4:48 p.m. PST |
I would have preferred they drop the GW model completely and just include pretty much everything in the main rule book. Its not like their are going to be more WWII units coming out later and Bolt Action is not all that detailed that Warlord couldn't dedicate a few pages for stat blocks (leaving out the historical background) except for the most obscure of units/vehicles which could be a pdf or something. I think deciding to keep the Armies of … books was too limiting on what they could have done to fix some of the issues with the 1st edition rules. I know that the main rule book with cover the more common units of Britain, Germany, Japan, Soviet Union and United States just like the old one did (plus Japan). However, I have met players that don't want to allow lists out of the main book in 1st edition and require the Armies of … to play. I wouldn't want a repeat of that 2nd edition. In my opinion the Armies of … books are nearly useless anyways. The historical information can be found just as easily on the internet. The units could be in the main book as mentioned. The Theater Selectors could have been in the theater books where it would be clear they aren't meant for tournament/pick up play. Warlord could have even attached certain force selectors (allowing them to me more specific than an extra MMG Team and reduced list of vehicles) to specific scenarios in their theater books. But that horse is nearly at the horizon, doesn't matter what the barn door is doing now. |
VVV reply | 29 Aug 2016 5:52 a.m. PST |
Well there are always going to be more armies to cover Brazilian Expeditionary Force link |
Shadowcat20 | 03 Sep 2016 3:07 p.m. PST |
I also ordered the book/box set deal from WL and added a few decal sheets for free shipping. I was sent the code but then have done 2 how to articles for their website and have orderd straight from them. |
Shadowcat20 | 03 Sep 2016 3:11 p.m. PST |
I like the historical army books myself. First when the main rulebook came out there were fewer armies (4) and lots of stuff got left out. Second as they expand their range more obscure units and vehicles get added to the lists and save having ro reissue the rulebook every few months (Sort of like WRG rules used to be) And last you can nail someone down to what they can and can not field in a certain time frame. No using Tiger 2 lists against early war French or DAK armies with panzerfausts. |
Keithandor | 05 Sep 2016 7:58 p.m. PST |
I cant believe they have gone to templates , seems very silly , a giant step backwards. They could have toned down HE with a simple 1+d3 hits , 2+d3 hits and 3+d3 hits and be done with it. I like some of the changes , but I don't think I'll be able to defend the use of Templates to my mates who look down on Bolt Action as 40k WW2 :( |
DanLewisTN | 05 Sep 2016 8:37 p.m. PST |
Hell whats going on here! |
NKL AeroTom | 05 Sep 2016 10:05 p.m. PST |
@Keithandor You could tell your mates that templates have been a part of WW2 wargaming since long before 40K Existed. Lional Tarr's rules from the late 50s have templates! I'm a bit surprised Bolt Action doesn't already have templates, considering the scale. It will certainly encourage people not to bunch up their troops if under artillery or mortar fire |
VVV reply | 09 Sep 2016 1:36 a.m. PST |
I like some of the changes , but I don't think I'll be able to defend the use of Templates to my mates who look down on Bolt Action as 40k WW2 :( Well it was designed by the ex-GW crowd. But to be fair 40K uses templates and to discourage bunching, templates are excellent. But I hope its the simple 'everyone in the template zone gets hit'. Seems it, is so I thoroughly approve. |
Old Grunt | 10 Sep 2016 8:59 p.m. PST |
The longer I'm exposed to this game the less I like it. |
ScottyOZ | 11 Sep 2016 5:06 a.m. PST |
I was so impressed by the impending changes to BA that I took up Chain of Command ! LOL |
Keithandor | 11 Sep 2016 3:25 p.m. PST |
@Ostfront Publishing Just because someone was using templates in the 1950's , doesn't mean it's a good idea. They thought smoking and suntans were a good idea in 1950. |
FlyXwire | 12 Sep 2016 6:28 a.m. PST |
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Judge Doug | 13 Sep 2016 7:34 a.m. PST |
Bolt Action has always had templates. Artillery and Smoke all used templates. Firing smoke from mortars is more common than firing HE rounds; so with many games you had a half dozen templates on the battlefield from smoke. Unifying the disparate template vs HE dice was a good idea, into a single system. a) Templates discourage Napoleonic-levels of bunching up. b) HE dice were ridiculous when fired at smaller units (so my LT takes 2D6 HE hits by himself, ?) c) It unifies the system. I've had the book for a day now; there are many changes, many of them very subtle, and it is very obvious that they took four years worth of player feedback and used it to make an overwhelming improvement over the first edition. But, I know most of the anti-Bolt Action crowd love to come to the Bolt Action subforum to be titillated. It is a favorite pastime among them to speak from ignorance about Bolt Action 2 authoritatively – a system they have not played, let alone even read. So the favorite tactic is – crack some 40k jokes. |
FlyXwire | 13 Sep 2016 12:47 p.m. PST |
I know of 2 gamers in my immediate area who never would play Bolt Action – but with the 2nd ed. coming out are doing so. Maybe it's for the rule changes, or the right oppportunity to join in now – personally just happy to see it. |
Dashetal | 14 Sep 2016 9:01 p.m. PST |
What size templates are used for HE hits? |
Captain Cook | 15 Sep 2016 4:51 a.m. PST |
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