"Bearskin hat of grenadiers of Royal Deux Ponts" Topic
7 Posts
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Winston Smith | 04 Aug 2016 8:32 a.m. PST |
What color is the bag on the back of the bearskin hat of the Royal Deux Ponts regiment at Yorktown? Is it blue like the coat or yellow like the facings? |
42flanker | 04 Aug 2016 10:44 a.m. PST |
The patch at the back of the bearskin, not a bag as such, I think ("the monkey's arse" according to Napoleon's grognards), was the same colour as the regimental facings, according to these good folk (They cite a long list of references): PDF link From the Office of the Northwest Territory Alliance Patternmaster French Uniforms #204 © 1997 Northwest Territory Alliance GENERAL OVERVIEW OF THE FRENCH UNIFORMS DURING THE AMERICAN WAR OF INDEPENDENCE # 204 By Bruce & Leslie Aller, Volontaires Etrangers de Lauzun March 17, 1990 Ordonnance du Roi, 2 February 1779 Ordonnance du Roi, 1 September 1779 (Lauzun's) Ordonnance du Roi, 5 March 1780 (Lauzun's) Era of the American Revolution, Company of Military Historians French in America During War of Independence, Thomas Balch The Wilde Geese: Irish Brigades, Mark McLaughlin Equipement Militaires 1750 a 1780, Michel Petard Soldat du Roi, Marcel Dugue MacCarthy Les Regiment Coloniaux, Rene Chartrand & Michel Petard |
Winston Smith | 04 Aug 2016 10:53 a.m. PST |
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Scharnachthal | 21 Oct 2016 11:07 a.m. PST |
As far as I know, Royal Deux-Ponts grenadiers didn't wear bearskin caps at all during the American campaign, but hats. Illustrations of grenadiers with bearskin cap are dated before (Lattré 1772) and after (Hoffmann 1786) the AWI, and therefore not representative of what the grenadiers wore at Yorktown. Van Blarenberghe's painting of the surrender of Yorktown, whose accuracy was approved by Alexandre Berthier, shows grenadiers with hats as does Ludwig von Closen, an officer of the regiment, for both the 1776 and 1779 uniforms… |
42flanker | 21 Oct 2016 12:24 p.m. PST |
This seems to be such a murky area. René Chartrand, in his Osprey book, The French Army in the American War of Independence, while indicating that Royal Deux Ponts conformed to the 1776 Ordonnance (which included abolition of the bonnet à poil for grenadiers)- by 1778 they may have reverted to the former styles. Whether, it was feasible for them to have resumed wear of the non-regulation bearskin, is not clear. As to the fur grenadier cap,Chartrand writes:
"Another item that was abolished in 1776 was the fur cap of the grenadiers but this order was ignored in some regiments, for we find that the Soissonois grenadiers parading in Philadelphia in 1781 with ‘its grenadiers' caps with great rose and white plumes' impressed the fair sex greatly according to Von Closen. It seems that Hainault's grenadiers kept their bearskins also. Such evidence is surely only the tip of the iceberg, as the officials eventually gave up and allowed the caps to grenadiers again in 1788." Meanwhile, in accordance wit Montbarrey's 1779 Ordonnance, grenadiers officially were intended to continue wearing a felt hat with a red tuft as a distinction; fusiliers and chasseurs to have plain hats without plumes. |
Scharnachthal | 21 Oct 2016 1:14 p.m. PST |
It's not murky area at all as far as the Royal Deux-Ponts regiment is concerned as we have the testimony of von Closen's illustrations and of Alexandre Berthier via Van Blarenberghe's painting. Soissonois is Soissonois and Hainault is Hainault, but Royal Deux-Ponts is Royal Deux-Ponts, and for them the evidence is clear, in my opinion. The use of bearskins by the Soissonois grenadiers is attested by von Closen, so no doubts about the veracity of the account. I cannot remember to have seen similar accounts for Hainault but, definitely, I've not seen any for the grenadiers of Royal Deux-Ponts – especially not by von Closen who certainly would not have missed to mention that the grenadiers of his own regiment – which like the Soissonois was at Philadelphia at the time – wore them, too – if they had worn any. This was a big parade, after all, the very occasion on which bearskin caps would have been worn by everyone who had them. Clearly, bearskin caps were worn exclusively by the Soissonois grenadiers but not by the grenadiers of the other regiments present, including Royal Deux-Ponts. |
42flanker | 21 Oct 2016 7:53 p.m. PST |
I meant, judging by the sources I have read, the question of French uniforms between 1776 and 1779, as to hwhat extent regiments responded to the earlier ordonnance, seems generally not to be clear. |
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