Please delete me | 02 Aug 2016 6:43 a.m. PST |
Hey all, long time lurker here. With all of the discussion about the HMGS conventions, has anyone ever thought of moving one west to the Pittsburgh convention center or to seven springs, outside of Pittsburgh? both placed have facilities large enough to handle large numbers. I was just curious if there was any thought on this matter. |
Pictors Studio | 02 Aug 2016 7:45 a.m. PST |
I think it is a little far away from any major population and certainly in no way central. It has the drawbacks of being as far north as Lancaster with the additional drawback of being another three hours further east. So you have the people from Philly who would have to drive four hours to get there, it is an extra hour or more drive for people in DC, depending where in DC they are, it is five hours from New York and probably equi-distant for people from Boston as Fredericksburg is. I know they had the boardgame convention there this weekend and heard it was very successful but I think that, while there is some overlap, board gamers and miniature gamers are different crowds. One problem with Seven Springs is the lack of food near the site. There are certainly restaurants on site but the diversity of restaurants seen in Lancaster and Fredericksburg doesn't exist there. They have that diversity and then some in Pittsburgh, but Pittsburgh convention center is right downtown and all the problems you encountered with the Baltimore site exist there. It would certainly be easier for me living very close but I wouldn't want it to be moved there. |
Al Swearengen | 02 Aug 2016 7:49 a.m. PST |
WBC just ended this past weekend and preliminary numbers saw about a 15% drop ( to about 1500 people ) from the last year at Lancaster ) . The board feels confident that the positive word of mouth will drive attendance back up, as initial post convention feedback has been overwhelmingly positive. That said, there are differences. One big one is that WBC is much longer – the majority attend for the better part of a full week if not longer, so the extra drive for some is worth the trade off. The one stark difference from the Host is that the hotel management and staff was extremely helpful and attentive to the cons needs. |
Please delete me | 02 Aug 2016 7:54 a.m. PST |
Population center? Columbus is further West, in a smaller city, and Origins is massive (15,000+ attendees). It's also downtown and they have no trouble with space. Pittsburgh just hosted a 10,000 person furry convention, with no hitch. Yes, furries, the people who dress up as animals. If there was a good, well run mini convention I think it would be successful in those locations. I could be wrong, and minis may be more of a regional event than other game types. |
Who asked this joker | 02 Aug 2016 7:56 a.m. PST |
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Al Swearengen | 02 Aug 2016 8:12 a.m. PST |
World Boardgaming Championships. They were held at the Lancaster Host for the 10 years prior to this year . |
Disco Joe | 02 Aug 2016 8:39 a.m. PST |
Scott, you stated it is 3 hours further east or is it further west? |
Larry R | 02 Aug 2016 8:42 a.m. PST |
I'd rather drive the 5 hours on the turnpike headed west than any time on 95 south! |
Al Swearengen | 02 Aug 2016 8:45 a.m. PST |
A little under 3 hours WEST of the Host, about 20 minutes off the Somerset exit on 76. |
Pictors Studio | 02 Aug 2016 9:36 a.m. PST |
Sorry, West, not East. Origins does well in Columbus but miniatures do not do that well there. The crowd is different. One big difference is that while there are people that fly in for Historicon and probably quite a few people would be hard pressed to host games and fly in with all their stuff. Not impossible, just more difficult. Hosting an RPG, boardgame or whatever is not difficult to do when flying in. Even a lot of cosplay stuff will fit in a suit case. People can car pool more easily when not bringing a bunch of miniatures and so on. Origins is a big con, but the miniature part of it is pretty small compared to the total or to the HMGS shows. |
HMS Exeter | 02 Aug 2016 3:15 p.m. PST |
What are the room costs at these 2 sites? I did a quick and dirty perusal, which might be off, but it looked like a real case of sticker shock at both. |
Pictors Studio | 02 Aug 2016 6:28 p.m. PST |
That was one of the problems with having it in Baltimore. The hotel cost for a major city is going to be high. That is the case in Pittsburgh. You won't find a lot of hotels in the down town area that are cheap. In seven springs you may find some cheap places off site in the summer nearby, not walking distance like you can do in Lancaster and Fredericksburg but still. I think the biggest problem with Western Pa, as a person who lives in Western Pa, is that it is too far to travel for too many people who aren't used to traveling that far. You can argue about it being fair or not fair but if the people don't show up you don't have a con. |
79thPA | 02 Aug 2016 8:34 p.m. PST |
You could also argue that it will bring a new demographic that doesn't live too far east, as Western PA is 3 or 4 hours closer to us. I would make the drive to P'burgh much more readily than to the current location. |
Ottoathome | 02 Aug 2016 9:22 p.m. PST |
The mission no one has asked for volunteers for is always inundated with them. |
Pictors Studio | 03 Aug 2016 5:28 a.m. PST |
"You could also argue that it will bring a new demographic that doesn't live too far east, as Western PA is 3 or 4 hours closer to us. I would make the drive to P'burgh much more readily than to the current location." You could, but the difference in population density between Ohio and West and Philly, DC and NYC make having it further East imperative. |
79thPA | 03 Aug 2016 7:31 a.m. PST |
Yes, I have thought of that, and it certainly is a valid point. |
holien | 03 Aug 2016 8:06 a.m. PST |
Sorry an off topic question. I have heard about WBC but been put off it due to my perceived idea that it is purely competitive? How easy is it just to play the various games without getting drawn into competitions? Or is it all competition driven? |
Al Swearengen | 03 Aug 2016 10:05 a.m. PST |
Two ways to look at it: The tournaments are competitive to a point. I prefer to think of it as "organized open gaming". If you show up at the designated time, you WILL get to play the game in question. There are no attendance caps or tickets – events don't "sell out". Many play one round of a game and just drop out after whether they win or lose. Totally acceptable and people do it all the time. In nearly 20 years of attending, I've been shut out of exactly two events. Both times because there weren't enough copies of the game on hand . That's extremely rare. The other point is that part of their growth over the years has been in Open gaming. I'd say well over half the attendees play in pick up games – they have a huge lending library of games and a dedicated area for open gaming that has room for hundreds of gamers . |
Inkpaduta | 03 Aug 2016 10:38 a.m. PST |
If it was in Pittsburgh I know that I would go. Haven't gone in some time because of the far distance to Virginia. |
47Ronin | 03 Aug 2016 1:26 p.m. PST |
I've visited Pittsburgh and enjoyed the trip. I'm also a student of the French and Indian War and know that Western PA has plenty to offer when it comes to the FIW and those (like me) who enjoy gaming that period. However, the problem with moving an HMGS convention to that area is the same as moving a convention south of DC: you are getting away from the "center mass" of traditional HMGS attendance without any certainty as to whether the new area will generate enough new gamers to replace those who decide to stay home as a result of the move. In other words, it's Fredericksburg all over again and HMGS has yet to recover from the negative effects of that move. I'm not surprised that the WBC saw a drop in attendance after they moved, but I understand why they left the Host. Hard as it may be to believe, they had more problems there than HMGS did. |
holien | 03 Aug 2016 8:41 p.m. PST |
Thanks Al I checked the web site after posting question, with your insight it might well be worth a trip, especially as it is a week of games… |
YogiBearMinis | 04 Aug 2016 7:36 p.m. PST |
The guys I knew who went to WBC were VERY competitive gamers, partially from temperament and partially from expertise. Many players are there to play their favorite games, which can be difficult if you are a newbie and so will get steamrolled on turn 2. |
Daribuck | 08 Aug 2016 7:05 p.m. PST |
On WBC conventions and HMGS conventions. I agree with almost everything Al Swearengewn said. If you play boardgames (or, lets be honest, many card games) WBC is awesome. I also used to complain about the competitiveness at the WBC, but the good news, IMO, is that open gaming is easily the fastest growing segment of the WBC. My gaming group mostly plays monster boardgames 12-16 hours a day… We played Day of Days, Der Weltkreig, and It Never Snows, plus a few side games. There are two philosophies: If you want to learn to play a game, why not play with the best? Sure, you will get creamed, but you definitely will learn! And most of the GMs are only too happy to teach you their game in an assigned "demo" time slot, generally an hour before the first heat, I was apprehensive about going to Seven Springs, but by the end of the week, it had grown nicely on me. There are not a lot of close by food places, though! It is a facility that the HMGS board should consider. Daniel |
Disco Joe | 08 Aug 2016 7:27 p.m. PST |
"There are not a lot of close by food places, though! It is a facility that the HMGS board should consider." If there aren't a lot of close by food places then why should it be considered? Gamers want things as close as possible. Especially food. |
Al Swearengen | 09 Aug 2016 5:59 a.m. PST |
While there aren't a lot of nearby offsite food options ( as opposed to the plethora of chains along Rt 30 ) the resort itself has a lot of onsite places to eat. Several bars ( with actual waitstaff instead of the slow old grumpy guy manning the bar sans waitstaff at the Host ) , a couple sit down places, an ice cream parlor, a pizza place, a Starbucks, and a cafeteria style set up. For those who found the Host and the accompanying area a stretch budget wise, Seven Springs will be a bit more expensive. If on the other hand you mainly at the Host before, the prices aren't substantially different. Basically, all the Rt 30 amenities exist, only they are 20 mins away. Chain fast food, cheap hotels like Red Roof, etc. One somewhat unique feature is that the resort has a ton of condos with full kitchens. Many people stayed in those. Room rates were about $10 USD per night higher than the Host. Like I said, cheaper stuff was available, but it entails a commute from Somerset or Donegal, about 20 minutes away. Good news is , zero traffic on the commute. As far as the facility itself and gaming, no complaints. Handicap access is much better than the Host. The one difference most people commented on was that the place was more spread out than the Host, you'll do more walking . There is a ton of parking right outside the largest meeting areas with direct access on the same level or one level lower via a paved ramp that can also be used by cars. The resort staff was exceptionally responsive. One small room had an AC failure and the same day they brought in and installed portable AC units, problem solved. The setting is quite nice. Very relaxing to wake up and look up a mountain as opposed to listening to some truck downshift trying to get up the hill outside the Host while the smell of wafts through the air. It is in a pretty remote area – for those going to a week long con, the extra travel time is pretty minimal vs the length of the con. For essentially a long weekend, it would be a harder sell for those who would be looking at a longer drive. The one good thing travel wise is that those coming from the south can avoid the dreaded Wash – Balt – Philly area, those from New England can swing around Philly/NY as well. But for the latter crowd, it is 3 hours further away. |
historygamer | 09 Aug 2016 10:07 a.m. PST |
Not really. But I will bet you that in three weeks time you can find a few flaming red maple trees on the property. I saw them every year I was up there for work in late August. |
TRUgamer | 09 Aug 2016 10:12 a.m. PST |
Sounds like it's a longer drive for 90% of the membership. Tough sell indeed. Sounds nice though. TRU |
Al Swearengen | 09 Aug 2016 11:08 a.m. PST |
Dunno about 90%, but yes a good chunk of the membership. For points south of Richmond VA, its only a half hour longer, if that – and you totally avoid driving thru the DC/Baltimore area or the dreaded I95 corridor in that area. For New Englanders, def longer , but again you can skirt all the major metro areas, so its not as bad as you'd think. That said, for a shorter duration con, the extra travel time for some may make it a tougher choice . The facility is much nicer than the Host, but that's not saying much. It was nice to see a staff that had the resources to do a proper job and deal with issues ( the few that came up ) on the spot. The WBC signed a five year contract with opt outs by either side within 30 days of the convention for the following year; it was renewed before the con even began due to strong pre reg response. I don't see the con not doing the entire five year contract. By then the Host will either be renovated and possibly be a contender again, esp with the two new hotels under construction nearby, or it will be razed to the ground. |
Disco Joe | 09 Aug 2016 4:42 p.m. PST |
Al, when you say points south of Richmond it is only half an hour longer. From where are you starting and is it to Seven Springs? I live around the Harrisburg Pa. area and according to what my iPad map says it would take me 2 hours and 39 minutes to get to Seven Springs . So for those south of Richmond wouldn't it take about 4 to 5 hours to get to Seven Springs? |
Al Swearengen | 10 Aug 2016 5:38 a.m. PST |
I just looked at Google maps for Richmond to Lancaster vs Richmond to Seven Springs. |