"Slightly Bonkers Question about Bundeswehr and NVA Exercises" Topic

Hi All,

When The Wall fell down there must have been a fairly strange atmosphere between the NVA and the Bundeswehr. Politics aside I wonder if there were any exercises between the NVA and the Bundewehr to compare battlefield doctrine. If not that then did the Bundeswehr do it themselves as it must have been a bit of a temptation to check out the opposition.Hey! let's fly a Hind!

On a slightly different tack when Nato did exercises would there be ,say, Germans playing OPFOR verses US? Brits vs Germans? French vs Everybody?

A light-hearted request. Hope you guys can help.

P.S. I read that the Swedish gave some S-Tanks to the British to train on and they wrote a very humourous account about how the "action" went.Aparently there was not enough stowage room on the S-Tank for all the necessities that British tankers wanted or needed.

They did do a lot of weapons testing and evaluations after reunification.

Mig-29s even served in the Luftwaffe for a bit too – nice jet, but pilot unfriendly avionics for weapons release, so I've read.

Therefore, I suspect it might have happened.

Back in the 1950s, Germans play OPFOR vs. US. Not sure after that, but imagine so.

There was some work done on equipment to try and get it to meet Western H&S standards!

Tally Ho!

Part of that H&S drive required the barrels of the BMP-1's to be concreted up. Apparently the fumes escaping into the fighting compartment were almost as lethal to the crew as the projectile was to an enemy!

Before the wall came down, the "enemy" on exercise varied. I remember one large exercise the British were dug in defending a village, and Americans were "enemy" attacking. The Germans in village were cheering for the Americans. When asked why they explained in the films Americans always came to save the day. They looked so upset when we explained in this case they were the bad guys.

Exercises were usually done keeping commands together. It was not unusual to find any of the NATO members on the same side or opposing each other. I participated in maneuvers with and against the Germans, against the French and with and against the Canadians. There were also training events where it was US vs US. It all just depended on at what level of command were the maneuvers taking place.

Thanks gents,

The reason why I asked about the exercises or manoeuvres is that I wonder what the different doctrines, tactics and equipment of say a Bundeswehr force and a British or American force would play out on the wargame table. Gaming an exercise might be an interesting experience instead of the usual Soviet invasion scenario. May give it a go soon.

Thanks for the interesting gen guys. What the Mig 29 was thought of must have led to some really good discussions at the time from the Airforce guys who had faced it as an enemy. From what I read it would seem that the sheer scale of the job of dismantling the NVA's weapons was a massive job. Concreting up the BMP barrels was a cheap-fix I guess.

Combined nations under different commands shows how well intergrated NATO is/was. Glad we never had to do it for real.

Now who would win an exercise? British vs German.

Now who would win an exercise? British vs German

Whoever the Directing Staff had already decided before the exercise began – invariably the 'good' guys, proving that defence budgets were adequate if not generous and that the troops had nothing to complain about…

A few years ago I was thinking of putting together a French vs. German rematch. My concept was that economic and other issues led to EU infighting, eventually causing the dissolution of the EU, with a shooting war not far behind. Really, with some of the issues starting to crop up, it wouldn't be hard to imagine squabbles and resentment developing between the member states.

A couple of years ago I was involved in a NATO wide exercise (even Albania had a token officer involved). The Germans were very welcoming to the Americans (and the guys I personally got along with the best, although a Greek and an Italian took me under their wing), while some of the French and Dutch were downright hostile. Go figure. In my section, the Hungarian section chief was almost insulting to the Italians, and while all the officers were good guys, the happiest one there was Greek – probably because he had a job.

NFWS for the win.

According to my book on Soviet Equipment by Kock , there is a picture of the T72s adorned with the Bundeswher cross. According to the book they were never used and in pretty poor shape. A few did manage a trip to the scrap yard under their own power according to the book

The new Bundeswehr TO&E Heeresstruktur 5 was first implemented in eastern Germany in 1993, where former NVA divisions were converted into six Bundeswehr brigades. These units were temporarily equipped with a modernized Soviet BMP-1, re-designated BMP-1A1 Ost, pending delivery of the new Marder 2 SPz. When the Marder 2 project was cancelled, the BMP-1A1 Ost was replaced by improved Marder 1A3

Thanks for the up-dates guys. Wow a T22 with crosses. I would love to see that. Like-wise some BMP in West German service.

Like Mako said NFWS for the win. The voice of experience there I believe.

Sundance I would also like to game France vs Germany, but I'm looking at this as a sort of Exercise game. Not for real. God forbid. Sort of steal the other guys logistics store. Something light hearted.

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Very nice. Thanks Scout Jock. Interesting to see the tarp/stowage around the turret. Don't think I've seen that before on a BMP.

The OP was asking about after "The Wall fell down". IIRC REFORGER 90 was the last big NATO exercise after the border was open. Then, because of Desert Storm the immediate draw down and base closings, there was almost a 4 year gap until USAREUR units were finally settled again in Germany.

During the 1990's US Army units in Germany trained almost exclusively against other US Army units.

Small ramp-up training events were usually held in Local Training Areas (LTA), Baumholder, Friedberg, Wildflicken, Schweinfurt, etc… against units from the same Brigade.

The yearly major training event for USAREUR was conducted at the Hohenfels CMTC (Combat Maneuver Training Center), against the dedicated US Army OPFOR unit (1-4IN).

Sure there were a few exceptions with small NATO elements participating (usually fighting alongside "Bluefor") but for the majority of events the training was internal.

During this entire time US Army unit almost never trained outside of a US Base (out in the German countryside).

It wasn't until 2005 when 1st Brigade 1st Armored Division from Friedberg conducted "Ready Crucible" that the US Army held a major off-post training event.