Tango01 | 27 Jul 2016 9:26 p.m. PST |
"While some are motivated by a genuine desire to help, others have come seeking personal glory, fighters say. Tel Eskof, Iraq – In the small, northern Iraqi town of Tel Eskof, a white pick-up truck rolled down the dirt road towards a nearby frontline, carrying part of a new medical unit. The men in the truck waved as a tall soldier standing at the roadside, clad in combat gear and dark Ray-Bans, bellowed in an unmistakable southern US drawl: "Welcome to Tel Eskof, y'all!" Spanning various ages and nationalities, the fighters here comprise part of a small yet well-known contingent of foreign volunteers who left their homes thousands of kilometres away to help the Kurds battle the Islamic State of Iraq and the Levant group (ISIL, also known as ISIS)…" Full article here link Amicalement Armand |
Legion 4 | 27 Jul 2016 9:45 p.m. PST |
Well once they are "out of the closet" so to speak, it should make them easier to target … |
McKinstry | 27 Jul 2016 10:17 p.m. PST |
Syria has turned into flypaper for freaks. Ideally the chlorine in the gene pool effect will substantially thin the herd and outweigh the survivors returning and bringing their poisonous skills home. |
piper909 | 27 Jul 2016 10:55 p.m. PST |
The "flypaper" theory does begin to gain credence from the evidence. Fight them there rather than fight them here. |
Legion 4 | 28 Jul 2016 6:58 a.m. PST |
As I see it … kill as many of the jihadis as possible. To lower the number of the survivors returning home to use their bloody skills. Mostly on civilians … We can't get them all but let's eliminate as many as possible. I don't think former Daesh or AQ members as being able to be "rehabilitated". As we see how many of the terrorists released from Gitmo. About 1/3 go back to their old jihadi ways. And have to be tracked down and droned, etc.,… And like the Nazis and IJF, once captured, "former" Daesh/AQ need to be put on trial. At the Hague or elsewhere. Their heinous crimes against humanity, etc., must no be allowed to go unpunished. Just like after the WWII War crime trials, where we said, we can't let this happen again. Well it has and not occurred just dealing with islamic terrorism. The UN still has troops in the former Yugoslavia. Where both Christians and moslems were victims of genocide etc., … And remember, Daesh has caused the biggest refugee exodus since the end of WWII. And as we see that has been very disruptive, etc., for everyone involved. No IMO, all Daesh/AQ members, both men and women need to be tried and punished. If they survive the WOT. For all this terror, horror, torture, murder, enslavement, rapes, etc., they have caused. |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 28 Jul 2016 7:41 a.m. PST |
Don't want to target these foreign fighters in Syria and Iraq cus they're the good guys fighting with the Kurds. |
Mako11 | 28 Jul 2016 7:51 a.m. PST |
The warm weather and culture. |
dwight shrute | 28 Jul 2016 8:23 a.m. PST |
Lots of great food … and endless repeats of ex on the beach and celebrity big brother on ISIS TV . |
15mm and 28mm Fanatik | 28 Jul 2016 10:44 a.m. PST |
Beats getting bored @ home. And all that open space to catch your Pokemonsters. |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 10:54 a.m. PST |
Why isn't Stan from Chatanooga in custody awaiting trial or in prison for sneaking off to Iraq/Syria as a foreign fighter? It just shows that laws designed to interdict foreign fighters are being used to stop ISIL-bound foreign fighters while pro-Kurdish foreign fighters get a wink and a nod to fight abroad. These people still bring back the skills and mental conditioning which make them extremely dangerous to their home countries and could very well become sleeper terrorists if Western policy shifts to an anti-Kurdish stance at some point in the future. The hypocracy of this policy of interdiction is so infuriating. If foreign fighters are allowed to join ISIL and blocked from returning to their countries of origin, then they would die in the Levant and not be able to slaughter their own countrymen and women at home, having been blocked from leaving by their own authorities. It makes me wonder if those authorities or their political masters want to create the conditions for massacres at home to serve their own selfish agendas? Rod Robertson. |
Legion 4 | 28 Jul 2016 11:03 a.m. PST |
Don't want to target these foreign fighters in Syria and Iraq cus they're the good guys fighting with the Kurds. NO … we don't want to target those who are fighting along side the Kurds. I was talking Daesh and AQ types … I thought I was adding content to the article. Guess I should have made that clearer. My Badd … Why isn't Stan from Chatanooga in custody awaiting trial or in prison for sneaking off to Iraq/Syria as a foreign fighter? If he was fighting against Daesh/AQ … why should he be charged with anything ? He was fighting against the US's/West's enemies …. Remember 30,000 Canadians fought in the US military during the Vietnam. And you said IIRC, that was illegal but no one was charged. Of course not … they were fighting the enemies of America and the West. The enemy was Communism then. Today it's islamic terrorism. I know you see things from a different POV than I do. But as long as they are fighting against who we consider the enemy, most of us are OK with that. That's the reality of it. These people still bring back the skills and mental conditioning which make them extremely dangerous to their home countries That could be said about any nations' Vets coming home after serving their country in a conflict or otherwise. … |
zippyfusenet | 28 Jul 2016 11:08 a.m. PST |
Jeez Rod. "…hypocracy…create the conditions for massacres…their selfish agendas…" Looks like pragmatism to me, and not a moment too soon. I'll make it simple for you: Good guy with a gun: good. Bad guy with a gun: bad. I think I can tell the good from the bad. I don't understand how anyone could be confused at this point. |
Mako11 | 28 Jul 2016 11:12 a.m. PST |
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Legion 4 | 28 Jul 2016 11:21 a.m. PST |
That is much too simple Zip for Rod and some others. We think we are the good guys … and the enemy thinks they are the good guys. Like the Nazis, IJFs, the Norks, Daesh etc., we get it … but some intellectuals that are smarter than us don't. I get that … |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 11:34 a.m. PST |
Zippyfusenet: In 1981 Usama bin Laden and the Afghan Mujahideen were 'good guys with guns', twenty years later they were not and the towers fell. What blow-back will supporting Kurdish fighters today cause in a generation and what regrets will we have for today's policies? Expediency/short-sighted pragmatism has burned the West many times before and it might be nice to try to avoid future disasters with a little prudence today. Legion4: Laws cannot be made that make one group of people criminals for their actions while letting another group off for doing exactly the same thing. One of the reasons the Americans fought a revolution was to stop this kind of legal abuse. If you have laws preventing illegal military service abroad these laws must apply to all who contravene them. To do otherwise undermines The Rule of Law. Laws are universal and not selective. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Legion 4 | 28 Jul 2016 11:45 a.m. PST |
Again your views lack any reality or pragmatism. You always sound like you think Daesh and AQ are somehow equal to us. In the West or even the Russians in the East. Radical islamists are not victims. And their actions and dogma barely makes them even human. One of the reasons the Americans fought a revolution was to stop this kind of legal abuse Things have changed since then. Although War Crimes were committed mostly in the South during the AWI. By both Tories and the British. And probably some patriots as well. Those pale in comparison to anything radical islam does today. Plus the AWI was over 240 years ago … Things have changed somewhat. If you have laws preventing illegal military service abroad these laws must apply to all who contravene them. To do otherwise undermines The Rule of Law. Laws are universal and not selective. So how come no one is charging anyone with a crime ? Because as I see it … It's not a crime to kill off any member of Daesh or AQ. |
zippyfusenet | 28 Jul 2016 11:45 a.m. PST |
In 1981 Usama bin Laden and the Afghan Mujahideen were 'good guys with guns', twenty years later they were not… Exactly. So you do understand. We should have taken al-Quaeda out by 2000. You can't let things sneak up on you in this business. |
Legion 4 | 28 Jul 2016 11:51 a.m. PST |
Amen … Also … In WWII the Germans, Japanese and Italians were our enemies. But not now. As I have said before. We should have never supported the Muj against the USSR. Maybe UBL and AQ would have been eliminated by the USSR. And radicalized militant islam, would be fighting among themselves. And not attacking the West. As we see … more and more the Russians are more like us in the West than many factions of fanatical islam. |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 11:53 a.m. PST |
zippyfusenet: Rather than creating Frankenstein monsters and then killing them with all the destabilization, upheaval and collateral damage that entails, wouldn't it be more sensible to not create the monstrosity in the first place? Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 12:06 p.m. PST |
zippyfusenet wrote: Exactly. So you do understand. We should have taken al-Quaeda out by 2000. You can't let things sneak up on you in this business. So we set up convenient resistance movements today and liquidate them tomorrow? What a delightful carrousel of slaughter your 'business' is and how stupid do you think these pawns are? If they see you doing this, they will never cooperate with you and will become your sworn enemies from the start. You will be adrift in a sea of enmity without allies or friends of any kind. That's just daft policy. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
zippyfusenet | 28 Jul 2016 12:13 p.m. PST |
Stop putting words in my mouth, Rod. The US didn't 'set up' the Afghan resistance to the Russians, they self-generated. We supported them when they made friendly overtures, and we fought them when they turned on us. We should have noticed the problem sooner, and dealt with it. Someone was asleep at the controls, or misjudged the situation. Sometimes I think you're too good for this world, Rod. But you manage get by from day to day, somehow. |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 12:36 p.m. PST |
zippyfusenet: link By mid-1979, the United States had started a covert program to finance the mujahideen.[5] President Carter's National Security Adviser, Zbigniew Brzezinski, was later quoted as saying that the goal of the program was to "induce a Soviet military intervention",[6][7] but later clarified that this was "a very sensationalized and abbreviated" misquotation and that the Soviet invasion occurred largely because of previous U.S. failures to restrain Soviet influence.[8][9] According to Eric Alterman, writing in The Nation, Cyrus Vance's close aide Marshall Shulman "insists that the State Department worked hard to dissuade the Soviets from invading and would never have undertaken a program to encourage it, though he says he was unaware of the covert program at the time. Indeed, Vance hardly seems to be represented at all in [Robert] Gates' recounting".[10] On 3 July 1979, Carter signed a presidential finding authorizing funding for anticommunist guerrillas in Afghanistan.[1] Following the Soviet intervention in Afghanistan in December Operation Storm-333 and installation of a more pro-Soviet president, Babrak Karmal, Carter announced, "The Soviet invasion of Afghanistan is the greatest threat to peace since the Second World War".[12]
Operation Cyclone started in 1979 before the Soviet invasion of Afghanistan with the goal of drawing the Soviets into an armed intervention. So yes, 'set up' is the right phrase on several levels. Cheers. Rod Robertson. |
Rod I Robertson | 28 Jul 2016 1:30 p.m. PST |
Terrement: 15mm all the way. 28mm is too large to reflect the long ranges that most engagements occur at in the modern Middle East. In fact it might be better to go to 12mm or 10mm but I'm already locked into 15mm. Cheers and good gaming. Rod Robertson. |
Mako11 | 28 Jul 2016 1:32 p.m. PST |
Anyone that wants to fight and kill commies is alright by me. |
foxweasel | 28 Jul 2016 1:36 p.m. PST |
Same reason foreign fighters went to Bosnia, they get to kill people and commit other acts of violence with little chance of any come backs from the home country. Some do go with a genuine sympathy for the locals, but most are just walty clowns living out some militaristic fantasy, who would never hack it in their own countries military. |
zippyfusenet | 28 Jul 2016 1:50 p.m. PST |
Well there you go, Jimmy Carter, everything he touched turned to shinola. I stand corrected. I should have said that the Afghan resistance to 'the communists' self generated, not to 'the Russians'. |
Ascent | 29 Jul 2016 2:05 a.m. PST |
I must agree with Rod about the rule of law. If you have a law that states it's illegal to go fight in a foreign country then it applies equally to all, not just those we don't like. We criticize other countries when they apply their laws in this way. What other laws do we want to apply subjectivley? That person murdered an innocent person on the street? Lock him up and throw away the key! Another person killed a drug dealer who is responsible for the beatings of people who owed him money? Well the victim wasn't a very nice person so we'll let him off. If the rule applys to one it applys to all. Once they're in court maybe the jury will be leniant but they don't avoid going to court in the first place. Part of the reason people want to come to western nations is for the protection of laws that are upheld without favour. |
Legion 4 | 29 Jul 2016 8:38 a.m. PST |
Foxweasel +10 Anyone that wants to fight and kill commies is alright by me. Come on Mako, do try to keep up … We pretty much have defeated the commies. It's now islamic terrorism that has to be eliminated as completely as possible. Which may take as long as it took to defeat Communism ['45-'90 ?] … maybe longer. You could talk to most of the Communists … With radical islam … not so much … If you have a law that states it's illegal to go fight in a foreign country then it applies equally to all, not just those we don't like. I'd think it is pragmatic and realist to remember radical islam is not like any other threat we, the modern world has faced. They can't be reasoned with. That should be clear even to those that have an intellectual academic outlook. I'd think ? If someone goes to fight and kill radical islamist that is in our favor. We, the West[and East], the modern world are not equal to radicalized islam in any way, on any level. I see them like zombies in the movies or TV shows. They just want to kill you, your family, friends, etc., … So the only way to prevent that is kill them. In large numbers as often as possible. Logical in the minds of those that want to survive. |
Legion 4 | 29 Jul 2016 8:53 a.m. PST |
15mm all the way. 28mm is too large to reflect the long ranges that most engagements occur at in the modern Middle East. 6mm is God's scale … |
Murvihill | 29 Jul 2016 10:51 a.m. PST |
I think the law says you're not allowed to take up arms against the United States, not that it's illegal to fight in a foreign country. Who knows though, there could be a law about that too. |