"Xyston versus Essex" Topic

Hi,

I am new to miniature wargaming and have decided to start out small with DBA3.0.

Must admit that I am overwhelmed by the number of army lists but one idea is Alexandrian Macedonian vs Later Archaemenid.

I am looking at the ready made armies and have been attracted by Essex and Xyston.

What do you reckon, which do you prefer?

My understanding is that Essex are a reliable good standard, but what about Xyston. I have tried reading some reviews of Xyston, but not found anything very recent. This is what I have gleaned

PRO: Good quality, well detailed
CON: Over-sized, nearer 18-20mm. The more recent reviews have said that quality is dropping off, maybe as moulds wear out and not replaced.
EVEN: Seperate spears and shields seem to divide opinions – seems like a good idea to me.

What do you think?

Cheers,

Nigel

I have a Theban army from Xyston, and love the figs. I have heard though, that some of the later figs in their catalog were larger. Horses are beautiful. I would recommend Xyston if you are an experienced painter, Essex if you like basic paint jobs.

OMO, Essex is coems out as "medium-sized fifteen", regardless of what is or isn't truly 15mm. I have bought plenty Essex (including 28's) recently, haven't seen any casting issues.

Some Essex do have separate shields, though most don't. All have cast-on javelins/spears/pikes, which to me is usually a down-check, especially with longer shafts. I drill out my pikes, which is a pain. No such problem with Xyston. I make my own in brass, but manufactured ones aren't hard to find. And as far as I can tell, 28mm steel pikes are no thicker than Essex' cast-ons.

My biggest problem with Essex is, you have to know what you are getting; I don't find their categorizations too accurate or (sometimes) trustworthy.

Don't get me wrong; I love Essex- I have hundreds (with dozens of Xyston). But for ancients, Xyston is hard to beat. Plus, they have the clear edge on sculpt variety.

You might want to also consider the War and Empire range of ancient minis..

link

I could be off base here, but is Xyston still in business even?

Later Xyston are too huge for my tastes to mix with most 15's, They are pushing 20mm. Generally I like separate spears/pikes, but Xyston failed to cast theirs with open hands. They use a very hard metal, and you have to drill through each hand, grr.

I would much rather cut off Essex' spears and open up the hands on theeir softer metal than ever try to drill holes through Xyston hands again.

OK, I guess I am not familiar with Xyston anymore. My Greeks are far from huge, and I've only had to drill out a couple of their hands.

The War & Empire range IS very nice. I almost suggested it. I picked up some hoplites a month or so ago, and was very pleased with them.

I went with pure Xyston figures for my Macedonians and Persians and never regretted it. Those ranges are just beautiful. The later stuff like the Romans are a bit big. I tried mixing in some Essex once but they just looked bad compared to the Xyston figs.

You have to put in the time to make the Xyston figs look good though. Wire spears, drilling holes in hands and separate shields. I used Little Big Man decals and pre-made spears.

I've stopped adding to my 15s in the last couple years so I can't really comment on the flash/mold issues.

Essex is good. Xyston is great.

That said, if you are new, Essex are easier to work with. They have cast pikes and spears. With Xyston, you have to add your own pikes and spears (either buy them or make them…). Essex details are simple, cleanly sculpted = easy to paint. Xyston are a bit more detailed, and if you are a good painter, can be painted to a similar standard as 28mm figures.

+1 on looking at War & Empire; I haven't seen these, so can't comment, but they have a good reputation, and might be a nice alternative.

I like Essex metal – they are still a lead-tin alloy and clean up easier.

When you get a figure with some mold slippage in the harder metal, it is a pain to fix. And I have gotten figures from nearly every manufacturer with that problem.

Thanks for the advice.

So if I have read right, Xyston are good and it might be that the models I have picked may not be that oversized. The metal is harder so more difficult to clean up and drill.

Will also look at the War and Empire range.

Cheers,

Nigel

Essex can be 'quirky'(polite version) in the pose and anatomical departments, so make sure you check the catalogue image for each code number before purchasing. They are however, crisply detailed and well cast. Unlike say Minifigs, I don't find their cast-on spears/lances/pikes problematic, because they're thick and sturdy enough to withstand the rigours of the tabletop.

As an aside Nigel, are you any relation to the renowned historian Peter Heather?

Never liked Essex…..love Xyston

I agree with Dave Jackson, the difference in quality (what they look like) is too big. Allthough I would also consider War and Empire as a good second for the same reason.

I prefer war and empire too
Xyston aré the best models but w&e are the best option

Essex – ultra-reliable, huge range, usually good clean castings – but occasional figure with mould slippage. Lack of pose variety. Xyston, slightly more 'craggy' moulding style, more detail, haven't seen mould slippage, but moulds are getting tired, so there may be more cleanup. Xyston, more variety but more work to glue shields and spears. To be fair, if you want some variety with Essex, you will be clipping spears and bending limbs, heads and weapons.

Scale issues – most Essex are 15-17mm. Most Xyston, 17-19mm generally speaking, I wouldn't mix them in the same army, but they can both look great, and the more recent Essex ranges are actually really really good. (Eastern European) Their Later Medieval knights are also really good. Here's them mixed in with some Corvus Belli:

link

Related to Peter Heather – not that I am aware – but it is not a common surname – will have to google him.

Cheers,

Nigel

The softer metal used by Essex allows much easier mods, like this one I did recently. The original pose is the one in the lower right corner. I cut a V-shaped notch out of the armpit, and bent the arm down by pushing the shoulder hard against a wood block. This flattened the mail on the shoulder, which I fixed with pin-pricks. Cut a notch in the front of the neck, and bent the head down (use balsa wood to cushion the head while doing this). I also cut off the spear, reshaped the hand, and bent the fingers around the new wire lance. Couldn't even begin to do this with the harder alloys.

BTW, I have found that Old Glory, and War and Empire figures are compatible with Essex ITO size. Don't think Xyston is.

MH

Comparison shots of my War & Empire and Xyston figures:

Comparison shots of my War & Empire and Xyston figures:

Nice-looking minis. In the lower frame, I'd say the ones on the left look a bit smaller and less hefty, but not to the point that you couldn't use them together if mounted separately. I assume the Xyston are on the right?

It may also be that some nationalities are larger than others. The War and Empire figures which I found to be compatible with Essex were Skythian cavalry.

MH

@hindsTMP!

Nice picture, and great job – I assume the Xyston are at the top.

I can certainly see that the top left figures look big compared with the others. The top right, not so much and it does look a little odd that the mounted troops come out shorter than the foot troops.

@All

I did have a look at War and Empire and do agree that they look very nice. The only thing that puts me off is that I am a total beginning, looking to keep it small to start with so giving DBA a try first. Essex and Xyston make that easier and cheaper for me because I can by just what I need for a DBA army.

With War and Empire I would have to work out what I needed, select those and then buy the packs but I would end up buying a lot more figures than I need and I suspect it would end up much more expensive. Unless I am misunderstanding something.

Cheers,

Nigel

@ nheather
I think the figures on the right , in both cases, are the Xyston ones. Those on the left being War & Empire.
You are correct, W & E are sold in unit packs of 12 cavalry or 24 Infantry (including command figures where appropriate) for about £10.00 GBP a unit.
For ease of painting, for a new starter, I would recommend Essex.

Yes, in both pictures, the W&E are on the left, and the Xystons on the right.

As others have noted, they will look OK in an army as long as they are not based together.

nheather, which one you go for will depend very much on how far you think you will go. One option is still to get an army pack, paint up enough for a DBA army, then continue if you like 15mm, or pass the rest to your friends to paint their own DBA armies if you don't want to go larger.

re – Xyston on the right

Thanks, I wouldn't have guessed that based on the photos. The infantry on the top-left look huge compared with those in the other three pictures – maybe the subject was a little closer or the camera zoomed in more.

Cheers,

Nigel

Err, those are cavalry at top left, not infantry, albeit with armoured chamfrons on the horses,(which do look a bit like pteruges.

Yes, Essex ARE easily modified, whether bending, notching, cutting, or drilling. Probably one in ten of mine have had head-swaps. Regularly drilling harder minis that size would be a total pain in the ass.

Khusrau,have some Xyston Thebans picked up in 2010 from Brookhurst. Nice slip front to back, right through the Boetian helmets.

Doing figs for a DBM army, pain to file down.

Although not nearly as bad as US Minifigs when they made the switch to pewter in some tired mold. Lead alloy wasn't bad to clean up with a box cutter on the bases. Pewter is grinder work.

Don't have any of the Macedonians or Carthaginians but Donnington has some nice Palmyrans, Skythians and Sassanids. If the others are of similar quality I'd look at those. Prices aren't bad either although they are a bit higher on shipping.

link
Might be useful to you if you are comparing manufacturers…

Tim