"Age Of Sigmar Reconsidered" Topic

In which I closely examine this product line one year later, and render judgment!

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"If you want ranks and flanks, then no, it will not meet your needs…"
Won't bother then!
Sounds dreadful- will carry on playing second edition WHFB I think.

Glad I could help you. ;)

AOS got me back into fantasy gaming after an absence of 20 years

Hmmm some of the Aelf sculpts look interesting.

I'm into it. I like the new setting and the new direction. My vintage chaos army doesn't really work anymore, but that is ok.

Totally agree with your review, AoS has recently sparked my interest too!

Cheers Andy

I do not really like the new setting. I am old school and swithched to Kings of War.

I am old school as well, but I'm liking it as it is fun. If I want to get a massed battle in, I will play one of the previous versions of Warhammer or Warhammer 9th age in the old world setting.

I never considered this incarnation, never looked at the rules, never oozed over the miniature. See where this is going.

Terrement, that was not the point at all. And if you are that concerned about balance, there is now a points system.

And to the extent your interpretation is correct, how is that any different from Warhammer ever was? There was always a chance of mismatches, points or no.

Zargon enjoy your other games, then!

if you are that concerned about balance, there is now a points system.

Just because it now has a point system does not make opposing armies balanced.

There has not been balance in WFB for sometime now.

Plus if I want to play a skirmish fantasy game I would just use Frostgrave, which is a far better game than AoS.

For a Rank & File Fantasy game then that would be Kings of War.

I would have just said Mordheim.

No real opinion on the rules, but I walked into my local GW on the day of it's release to buy primer and the place was full of kids and older chaps whooping and hollering and clearly having a great time playing the demo games, so….

Just curious, what does it offer that makes it better set of rules than other non AoS fantasy skirmish games?

Well first off the ability to have more players. Plus the Rules are cheap and even the best fighter can die.

The Magic in it is not over powering unlike what GW did with the last Edition of WFB.

Depending on how you want to play it you can play it:

As a free for all I.E. everyone against everyone
Co-Op with the players Warbands having to clean out those nasty Cultists, or Orcs.

There is a lot that you can do with this set of Rules.

AoS can have plenty of players.

Magic certainly isn't over powered in AoS, as a matter of fact a lot of people complain that it is underwhelming.

You can play AoS in multiple ways as well.

There is a lot you can do with AoS.

You haven't ever played AoS Mithmee. You obviously have no idea how the system works.

Gattamalata hit the nail on the head with the very next post.

I find AoS much like 4th edition D&D. It is very different, and if you were playing D&D because you enjoyed certain features or tropes of the game, when they go and toss it all out, there is no reason for you to like the new game. It will have its adherents though, including lots of "I used to play, but didn't anymore till these rules came out!" or "I never played fantasy until the new edition came out!" Same statements I see above I saw with 4th D&D. So the similarities are striking…

Damon.

Thing is in Frostgrave you are not rolling bucket of dice.

That is all GW has done with their games.

They think that if you are rolling 30-50 dice at a time you are having a great time.

Plus with Frostgrave the miniatures are way more cheaper than anything that GW is putting out these days.

But yes I have not played AoS or will I ever play AoS because I really do not like rolling buckets of dice.

I don't mind rolling them, it's sorting and counting them that is a hassle…

"Thing is in Frostgrave you are not rolling bucket of dice."

You only have 10 models on your side in Frostgrave.

You have 10 models in a unit in AoS. So it isn't really a fair comparison.

If you want to compare a GW game with a low model count per side to Frostgrave you'd have to look at another system.

You don't roll buckets of dice with Space Hulk. Maybe you have been, but you are playing it wrong if you do.

"Plus with Frostgrave the miniatures are way more cheaper than anything that GW is putting out these days."

Actually the Frostgrave figs are about $5 USD each for the characters, $10 USD each for some of the monsters and $1.50 USD for the plastics. GW's starter set is $125 USD retail for about 50 miniatures which works out to about $2.50 USD each, but 6 of them are characters or monsters.

So it is difficult to say that the Frostgrave miniatures
"are way more cheaper" than "anything" GW is selling.

Which would be true even if "way more cheaper" wasn't difficult to say all by itself.

You have 10 models in a unit in AoS. So it isn't really a fair comparison.

It sure is.

Take my 45 High Elf Reavers, they can make 3 attacks each when not within 3" of an enemy.

That is 135 dice.

With only 10 of them they are still rolling 30 dice compared to maybe the 10 dice for that 10 figure Frostgrave warband.

Oh and chances are very slim that you will be rolling those 10 dice since not all of them will be in combat at the same time.

We have already gone over the price of Frostgrave models. I have picked their Cultist box set for just $30 USD for 20 miniatures and they are all for the same force.

As for the AoS starter set I have enough Space Marines now and don't need any more. Plus I want nothing to do with those Chaos figures.

Oh and those $5 USD price for Frostgrave characters is for metal figures and not plastic.

So yes, GW figures cost to much these days and are not worth the money that they want for them.

You might like rolling 100's of dice each turn but there are quite a few of us who don't.

How do plastic and metal figures perform different functions on the gaming table?

You said two things in your last post prior to the one right above:

One is that GW is only making games that roll buckets of dice. This assertion has been proven false.

Two that Frostgrave figures are "way more cheaper" than "anything" GW makes. This has also been shown to be incorrect and more than grammatically.

Whether you like them or not is irrelevant to the actual cost of the models. There are periods that I don't game it doesn't make the models any more or less expensive.

In another post you said the rules for Frostgrave are cheap but they are actually infinitely more expensive than the rules for AoS.

There might be people that do or do not like rolling lots of dice. The quality of a game doesn't depend on that. In Warmaster you roll buckets of dice (far more than you usually roll in AoS) and that is, not unanimously, seen as a great game.

And again, I think you don't understand how AoS works. The more accurate GW product with which to compare Frostgrave would be Mordheim.

Are regular wood elves back yet in AOS? (I realize I can use the regular warscrolls for them).

No they aren't. It isn't clear whether they will be or whether they have been mostly replaced by the Sylvaneth.

This has also been shown to be incorrect and more than grammatically.

No it not.

The Age of Sigmar comes with around 50 models for $125. USD

For that amount of money I could have gotten 80 models.

There is nothing cheap about GW miniatures their character miniatures run from $20 USD to $30 USD for normal size and they really want you to buy those over sized miniature that sell for over $100. USD

This assertion has been proven false.

Really? Just how many dice are you rolling every turn once your troops get into combat?

Remember I have seen nearly all of the war scrolls for the units.

Warmaster you roll buckets of dice (far more than you usually roll in AoS) and that is. not unanimously, seen as a great game.

Oh and I do believe that GW killed off Warmaster quite some time ago.

But you are right that not everyone likes it, I am one of those individuals more for the fact that large creatures do not carrying their wounds. You need to kill it completely or otherwise it not considered to be wounded at all.

Oh and while the very initial set of rules were free the follow-on books are not.

"For that amount of money I could have gotten 80 models."

Is that it? I could have bought over 1000 models for that amount of money.

"But you are right that not everyone likes it, I am one of those individuals more for the fact that large creatures do not carrying their wounds. You need to kill it completely or otherwise it not considered to be wounded at all."

You have no idea what you are talking about. As you wound large creatures they get weaker and weaker, make fewer attacks, move slower and so forth. There are odd exceptions, like Scarbrand, but for the most part monsters weaken as they are wounded.

So knowing that, since you said that was one of the biggest reasons you don't like it, you will start playing it.

You managed the being wrong hat trick in this thread.

And what is wrong with them wanting me to buy giant monsters for $100. USD I want giant monsters. They make fairly sturdy ones, as these things go and for a relatively inexpensive price for what you get. Sure it is a high price point but a good value for the figure.

You know you don't have to play with them? Games Workshop police will not come to your house or even your local store and thump you with a baton for not having a big monster in your army.

Financially Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a winner.

You can continue to think that GW is cheaper and claim that you could buy more miniatures without backing it up.

But I have brought box sets of Frostgrave miniatures for $30 USD per box.

You are just claiming that you could buy more when actually you can't.

"But you are right that not everyone likes it, I am one of those individuals more for the fact that large creatures do not carrying their wounds. You need to kill it completely or otherwise it not considered to be wounded at all."

I was talking about Warmaster and not AoS.

Financially Warhammer Age of Sigmar is a winner.

Not in my neck of the woods.

I stopped by the FLGS last week and asked a friend that works there on just how AoS is selling and he stated that it not.

Oh and if you want to buy those overpriced models more power to you.

I will put my money to better uses like:

I figure that I would be spending around $285 USD-$300 on this and will get around 180 miniatures give or take.

Oh there are some large models in there as well.

So when given a choice of buying 2-3 miniatures or around 180…

The 180 will win out every time, esp. when the miniatures are better looking then GW's.

"I was talking about Warmaster and not AoS."

Then you were still wrong because the Warmaster monster got wounded too. If a giant took four hits it went from having 8 attacks and 8 wounds to having 4 attacks and 4 wounds.

You just don't get tired of being wrong.

"But I have brought box sets of Frostgrave miniatures for $30 USD USD per box."

Where did you bring them?

It seems like a steep price to pay just to have them transported. I bought a whole set of Frostgrave figures for about $30 USD and shipping was included.

"ou are just claiming that you could buy more when actually you can't."

I'm not just claiming it. I proved it in the post above. Just go up read.

GW figures can be had for about the same price as Frostgrave figures when you compare similar models.

I don't know that international companies necessarily base their business decisions on purchasing trends in your neck of the woods but financially Age of Sigmar is a winner.

Where did you buy them?

From a dealer at a convention and he had more but since I already had one box set of Cultists I figured that 60 should be more than enough.

GW figures can be had for about the same price as Frostgrave figures when you compare similar models.

Sure if you only buy certain sets like Goblins, Dwarf Warriors, which I suspect will go away once GW decides to stop making them, oh and they will decide to stop making them.

As for Characters GW's prices are far more expensive like 3-4 times more expensive.

I'm not just claiming it. I proved it in the post above.

You proved nothing, while on the other hand I have proved it several times.

Claims are one thing actually buying of miniatures is another.

Here is the proof again:

Age of Sigmar boxed set 47 models, retail price $125. USD

41 rank and file models (some of them flying ones, many of them 40mm figures)
5 characters (1 mounted, 1 with a monster)
1 monster

So basically two boxed sets of Frostgrave figures at $60. USD
4 characters. $20 USD
1 big monster $20 USD
Now they don't have any mounted characters, especially none on little dragon things, but we could assume that one would be about the same price as one of their big monsters or say only double the cost of a character so $10 USD-20.

So the total for the Frostgrave set would be $110 USD-120 and the GW set is $125. USD

Now let's look at your initial assertion:

"Plus with Frostgrave the miniatures are way more cheaper than anything that GW is putting out these days."

This is plainly false. You are wrong, unless you think 4-8% cheaper counts as "way more cheaper" as you put it.

Let's not forget that the rules for Frostgrave are going to set you back $25. USD The rules for AoS cost $0. USD

So to start with the same figures for Frostgrave, not that you would want that many figures for the game, you would have to spend $135 USD-145 and for AoS it would only be $125. USD

Now, of course, the actual cost to start two armies for Frostgrave is probably only something like $50 USD, one boxed set of guys plus two packs of wizards, but comparing like number of figures to like plus the rules, the Frostgrave stuff ends up being more expensive.

Why are you trying to misquote me here? I didn't say the following, yet you quote it like I did:

"Where did you buy them?"

Box Sets of Frostgrave miniatures are:

Soldiers
Cultists
Gnolls

All have 20 Miniatures in them and retail for around $35. USD

So for that $125 USD you can get one of each of these box sets and still have $20 USD left over to buy the 4 Characters.

So a total of 64 Models compared to your 47 models, which nearly half of them are nothing but Space Marines without Bolters.

Let's not forget that the rules for Frostgrave are going to set you back $25 USD The rules for AoS cost $0. USD

Actually you can get the rules at Amazon for under $20 USD and all of those follow-on books for AoS will set you back several hundred dollars.

Since they range in price from $35 USD – $60. USD

Why are you trying to misquote me here? I didn't say the following, yet you quote it like I did:

"Where did you buy them?"

Because your quote:

Where did you bring them?)

Made no sense at all.

But then either do your attempts to try and make GW miniatures cheaper than they actually are.

Makes no sense?

Here is what you said:

"But I have brought box sets of Frostgrave miniatures for $30 USD USD per box."

I asked you where you brought them.

Maybe you need to go back and read some of what you have written above.

"Since they range in price from $35 USD USD – $60. USD"

Wrong again, some are only $16.50 USD. Not that you need any of them since the rules are free online.

"So a total of 64 Models compared to your 47 models"

And you continue to not compare like to like. If you are going to get a big monster and 5 characters in Frostgrave it is going to cost you about $45. USD

"Actually you can get the rules at Amazon for under $20 USD"

Yes, but again, we aren't talking about Amazon prices. We are comparing retail to retail.

You can get the whole starter set of AoS shipped from Amazon for less than $100 USD making them about $2 USD a figure for all of the stuff in the set.

Just two Frostgrave figures on Amazon can run you almost as much as a very good used car.

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at over $16,000.00 USD for one or two figures. Those are expensive prices for figures.

GW figures are much cheaper on Amazon.

If you aren't going to compare like to like both games are ridiculously expensive because you can get more than a 1000 figures from Baccus for $125. USD

Okay you got me there.

Though I really think those are not going to sell.

Oh and I have all of those models already.

Paid far less for them though.

BlackKnight is exactly right! I liked the rules before, and now that there is a point system, I'm looking forward to playing a lot more AoS.