"What to expect as a newbie getting into FoW" Topic

So, I'm new to miniature war gaming and I'm going to be sitting in a couple local groups.

FoW seems to me both groups mainstay. That's fine. I'm more than happy to play what the masses play.

Once I get the feel for miniature gaming I plan on finding a set of rules I like and teaching/hosting games.

This being said, I've read a lot of unfavorable comments about FoW. That it's flashy, expensive, not well designed, doesn't offer historical accuracy (This is my main concern, but it's just a game after all)

So, as a new gamer and a new participant to FoW, what should I be prepared for?

Any tips or advice?

Thanks

If you're new to mini's wargaming, I imagine what to expect is a lot of fun :-)

The flaws of FOW is mainly:

A: Sure, its not the most realistic thing out there.
I wouldn't worry about that right now, if you're starting out, and you may not actually end up caring about that long-term.

B: It is a bit expensive figures wise, in the same that to play well, you need a lot of toys.

The upside is that even if you decide to switch rules later on, you can still use those figures just fine.

My recommendation would be to jump in, play a few games and see how you get on, then start exploring other options down the road.

Sound advice from weasel. Jump in and play.

See if one of the members will let play a couple of games with their toys. Many players have more than one army!

Then pick an army you like, buy what you need and play lots of games. If you intend on playing a different game later (and introducing it to the group) you are not then a complete stranger.

FoW is a fun game, I played it avidly for years and made a lot of great friends. If you want to get games in then all you need to know is that your groups play FoW, so jump in!

As for the complaints, most of them can be ignored outright. Sure, everyone has their opinions, but for the most part they're nitpicks from people who want something really specific, rather than the "game for the masses" that FoW is built to be. Can't make everyone happy, though FoW sure seems to work for the majority.

Also, the comment about it being expensive… It's a large scale (number of models, not the size of them) minis game! Yes, there's an initial investment that's not insignificant, but that's what models cost. That has nothing to do with that particular game. Battlefront plastics are a great deal and if you'd rather use something else, no ones stopping you! Get the Open Fire box, its a steal!

Have fun! :D

Fun with friends is key. Never played so no real right to an opinion. 15mm is a great scale.
Perhaps base your infantry individually and use sabots or magnetic bases in case you do want to switch rules -particularly skirmish – though FoW basing can work for many other sets.
Or PSC make big boxes of platic 15mm figs for a great price so may not matter.

As a long time miniature table top war gamer I recently came back to Flames of War. Mainly due to the fact that it is extremely popular at my local games store and highly supported by that store's owner. Also it is a fun game and I love WW II and so it works for me. Yes there are better rules systems for doing WW II in 15 mm. But Flames of War is readily available and you have tons of folks willing to game with you. You do not have to buy two opposing forces to get started. Just play a few games borrowing other players forces then figure out which nation fits your playing style.

Some of the cost can be greatly mitigated by going with Plastic Toy Soldier for a large number of your tanks and other vehicles. Although the Battlefront models are top notch in my opinion.

Here are my thoughts on the playing styles of the main nationalities:

Germans: If you like tough reliable troops that will jump fast and hard against your opponent and punch them in the face, then the Germans are your choice. And you are spoiled for choice. The Germans are a good force to start with as they are extremely forgiving if you make a tactical error. Cons are the Germans are one of the more expensive forces to get into and the most difficult to paint because of the complex cammo schemes for the later war tanks and uniforms.

Brits: If you like a static defensive force and love to lob artillery at your opponent watching them dive for cover then the Brits are for you. Also they are tough and determined in a knock down drag out fight. Easy army to paint.

Russians: Quantity is its own quality but you have to be able to see lots of your forces not do well and take a ton of casualties as you grind your opponent down with numbers. However what is not to love about a plethora of T-34s and then some of the later Soviet tanks are just monsters! Con, you will have to paint a lot of infantry.

Americans: My personal fave and the army that is good at everything but not always great at anything. Easy to paint up and a flexible force that requires careful planing to win with. Get used to seeing your tanks die to the German bigger guns but you can still overpower the Germans with your flexibility.

If cost is an issue, as mentioned there are plenty of alternative manufacturers you can check out.

I've always felt it was a great game. The issues around accuracy have a lot to do with the type of FoW game you play – tournament style gaming can be weird in the accuracy sense, but by setting up games where you agree with your opponent to use historically matched lists you get around that.

Let me address a few of your issues.

Expense. The rules are in the same ballpark as other current rules. IF they go to another edition, in the past they have given away the newest edition free if you turn in the old one.
As for supplements, how many do you really need? Borrow a friend's copy to make your army. And if your period is something like D-Day hold out. You don't need the myriad of booklets. There is a compendium. If it's Bulge, a combined volume will be out shortly.

Expense of figures. Even if you go exclusively with Battlefront figures (and there is absolutely no need to) a core army is not that expensive.
But there are alternates at one third of the BF price.
Old Glory with a 40% discount Army Card.
Plastic Soldier company figures and models are less than half of BF prices.
Zvezda tanks are 30% the price and can be bought individually.

Unrealistic? Absolutely if you confine yourself to tournament play. Like 8th Army British vs Finns. Or American vs British.
So do historical scenarios or campaigns instead. For all the silliness of a tournament matchup, scenarios are great.

The rules are subtle, in including the things that detractors wish were there.
I'll give one example. Haters say there is no "Overwatch".
Really? What happens if the Hun fails his Stormtrooper move. There he is. Right in front of your guns. And if defensive fire in an assault isn't "Overwatch", I don't know what is.
People who insist on Overwatch remind me of the guys who want to tap load rifles in skirmish games because they read about it in a Sharpe book.

Tournament and points play sometimes brings out "that guy," but my experience playing in a regular group and two or three tournaments a year have all been positive. All rule sets have some goofy abstraction so just go in with an open mind and open fire!

FoW is a great game. I only play with the early rules and no other 'special rules' than are in my one rulebook. There are a lot of nuances in the game and because it is a game (as opposed to a simulation or whatever) it can be gamed, if you get my meaning. However, you are learning at a local club so find someone who is not there to just kick the snot out of the newbie and have some fun. You will enjoy it I am sure.

As an aside I still think I have the dubious honour of being the only person ever banned from Battlefront's forum because the owner thought I was mean to him.

Each of us has something in wargaming to be proud of.

Thank you all for your comments.

The local groups are just a bunch of guys who get together and just have fun. They don't do tournies (that I'm aware of, and I never would). I'm not the overly competitive type. I'd rather get creamed and everyone has fun than win and the game/players were not fun :)

The person running the group I'm going to hang out with in a couple weeks has told me to not buy any figs. Just to use his to see if I like the game or what nation I'd prefer to play.

Also told me to not buy any rules or source books as they'll teach me the game. If I decide I like the game I'll buy the rules and my own minis.

They also play other games, but it sounds like FOW is their mainstay.

Looking forward it though.

Memorize the special rules for your units and your opponents.

Wolfhag

IIRC Mr Smaller you called him fat!

:)

More of a simple sound observation declared aloud or in the written format than a taunt or mean spirited attack if my memory serves.

There is a lot of YouTube material for you to watch and get a good idea of the game.

I bought the starter set Open Fire the other day and it is amazing value and is geared up for the newbie.

Gale Force Nine (in association with Battlefront) have just brought out a new fun game called TANKS. It plays in a 3' x 3' space and the again, the starter box is amazing value.

I initially bought open Fire to give me some cheap reinforcements for TANKS, but having read the starter rules, the FOW system looks quite interesting to me.

I have been a war gamer for years and can count rivets on tanks ….. But I have not lost sight of the fact that I play games for fun and what I need is a solid, fun, well tested rules eat that gives a good game in a single session. I gave up on the notion of 'realism' and much prefer 'feel', usually through abstraction and straight-forward mechanics.

A noticeable nervous tick, and male pattern baldness!

On the other hand once you get into it you might actually find a great deal of fun and make some great friends!

I started with FOW when it was in it's early Beta form. Played games for fun & learning with my gaming buds till we got a handle on the rules. Played in several local and regional tournaments where I often did better then expected. Never once did I play against an opponent where I didn't enjoy the experience, or the game!

Sometimes the dice don't fall your way, but that's why it's called a game! I still gave my opponent a competitive game, and made him beat me! As long as you're having fun it doesn't get better then that!

Play it, you've got a group who can help you and can get you going…in 6 months time you might think FOW is the best game for you, – fabulous- or you might not, in which case you will be a little more experienced and be capable of identifying what you want out of a wargame, and be able to look at other options

Well there are cheaper figures than FoW out there, so it need not be expensive.

As for the rules, they are what they are. If you are going to play because that is what everyone else is playing, thats a good enough reason.

Good game and very well supported by the company. From YouTube to articles to forums.

+1 to Winston Smith agree with just about everything he has to say on the subject.

It has already been said but I will chime in as well that FOW plays extremely well if you are just doing friendly games set in the same theater and timeline of the war.

I do not do the tournament thing but I am currently playing in a Late War league and it has been a blast. The store owner where the games are being played has set up the opponents based upon whether they are Allied or Axis forces. Since I am playing either an American Tank Company or an American Armored Rifle Company I am always going up against late war Germans and I had one game against law war Italians that was extremely fun even though I ended up losing that one. Store owner also set it up that no one could field a tank with a front armor greater than 12. That keeps all the super tanks from being dominate. Germans can still bring in their Panthers and Tiger Is and a few others of note,but you will not see the Jagtigers and Jagpanthers.

The points for the league were also set at 1420. That makes you have to chose wisely about your force composition as you do not have the luxury that say 1500 or more points would give you. The league has been extremely fun and all the players I have met are there because they want to have fun and work hard to set up a great looking table that reflects where and which forces are fighting. As an example the Italian force I fought we made sure to have lots of Italian buildings, vineyards and rolling hills and sparse woods. It made for an evocative and challenging game.

I will second on the comment that you want to learn the Nationality rules and depending on the army you decide to collect and play initially keep your nationality rules in mind.

It's a game I think most people will never master, and thus it has long term re-playability potential. Other than that, what Weasel said.

hey
? what about the Italians? just because you have to roll for morale beginning the battle! i agree with Winston SMITH and Kallman.

i think the rules are fine. my beef is having divisional artillery on board. a little unrealistic. but it is merchandising!

OBJECTIVES COULD BE CAPTURE A TOWN OR BRIDGE OR HILL. instead of an arbitrary point on board. but that can be worked out as a house rule!

play a few and enjoy!

I have fun playing Flames.

Haven't played much in V3, been generally too busy.

But my usual recommendation for army building is to always take the mortars, and at least one other arty. This second arty could be more mortars if your organization allows it, or it could be a real artillery battery or infantry gun platoon.

You will also likely want one platoon of tanks and one of AT guns/tank destroyers (or two platoons of tanks).

Always max out your infantry platoons, and you will probably want to take all the infantry platoons you can. At least the full amount in the Combat Platoons section of your choice chart.

So, I happened to play my first game of FoW today.

Didn't like it. It was too abstracted for me. I didn't know until just now that it's based off a fantasy tabletop game, Warhammer?? Well, that's why it didn't "feel" right.

Also, I didn't like the "scale". 15mm figs looks awesome, but I don't like the "look" on the table.

I prefer larger battles and I'm going to try and find something more suitable (rules-wise) for micro armor.

Also, the guys playing the game seemed a little persinkity to me.

A lot of $$$ out of your Bank Account!

Been playing for several years. My area still has a strong following and just started a Overlord campaign. We have new players start and old players fade all the time. We do not do tourney's we do more campaigns style gaming. It seems to fill voids for everyone and by and large people really seem to like it.